Invented of the Pigeon Magnet ?

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Many years ago the Pigeon magnet (whirlygig) was invented. I remember reading about them & getting one, a very simple device, people tried to copy it with car wiper motors but couldn't get the speed quite right or more often very wrong. Are modern day examples basicaly the same & out of curiosity who invented them or was it further devolped from a shed build maker / inventer ?

[Stephen-H]

at about 50 minutes in he explains all about the whirlys etc & I'm sure he says it's a welsh bloke that invented it & then it rocketed off from there with people copying it etc.

The question is ...has the whirly had its day? A lot of pigeons seem shy off them I find they seem to either work or put the birds off that's what I've found on my outings anyway 

 

[mellors]

As far as I've read and been told it was credited to will beasley. 

The optimum accepted speed is 43 rpm with 42 inch arms fitted which obviously changes dramatically with longer arms. 

A speed controller will help although they only work well on laid and standing crop some will disagree its all down to the pigeons on the day as with flappers and decoy patterns. 

 

[marsh man]

11 minutes ago, mellors said:

As far as I've read and been told it was credited to will beasley. 

The optimum accepted speed is 43 rpm with 42 inch arms fitted which obviously changes dramatically with longer arms. 

A speed controller will help although they only work well on laid and standing crop some will disagree its all down to the pigeons on the day as with flappers and decoy patterns. 

 

I was a great believer in the speed control , then one year it broke after only two or three months wear , I carried on using the magnet with it running at whatever speed it was set and didn't really notice a scrap of difference , I took my old one to one of the game fairs where A A Decoys had a stall , the chap exchanged it for free with no problems and I ended up flogging it on the forum and never bothered to use another one , I did find out later that my magnet had two settings on the motor and all you done was to change the terminal , never bothered with that either , if it ain't broke then there is no need to mend it , or so they say.     MM 

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Interesting insight about something now taken as a decoying tool we've had since years ago. I just remember that the early ones were single speed & only a few specific windscreen motors were of the correct speed & controlers as we know them now were years away. Like others I've noticed they either attract or send pigeon further away. Is there another invention waiting to be thought of & knocked up in a shed, I've seen feeding / flapping / rocking devices that come later, what's next ?

[old'un]

The flight/movement of the birds on a rotary is totally unnatural but they do seem to pull birds more often than not.

 

7 minutes ago, THEINVISIBLESCARECROW said:

Interesting insight about something now taken as a decoying tool we've had since years ago. I just remember that the early ones were single speed & only a few specific windscreen motors were of the correct speed & controlers as we know them now were years away. Like others I've noticed they either attract or send pigeon further away. Is there another invention waiting to be thought of & knocked up in a shed, I've seen feeding / flapping / rocking devices that come later, what's next ?

Drones.

[mellors]

Drones.!!!. 

Now there's a thought a drone pigeon. 

My mate's got a drone. 🤔

[rbrowning2]

i have drift off etc, quick look then nearly shot the whirly, dread to think how long a drone would last 😂😂

[THEINVISIBLESCARECROW]

Can't fly a drone, I tried, done well for 30 seconds then decided not for me so sell before I crash it. Would a grey paper plane work with a hard chuck out of the hide. Thinking of it seriously, I'm surprised someone hasn't experimented allready or has some one ?

[oldypigeonpopper]

Hello, interesting thread, i can only go back to 1960/1970s when it was rubber deeks and flappers on a string, Parsons was the main sellers of pigeon shooting gear, i did have a set of lofting poles but it was all basic stuff, fast forward to today where there is a lot of new ideas like the Rotary but like people say , every day is different to what works, as many did on PW i bought a Rotary but after a few tries i did not do any good, its a lot of gear for one person to carry/set up, now i just take a basic kit, 2 floaters on poles and various decoys, although i have not done any pigeon shooting for a long time now, I use flocked decoys, I always feel even these are getting old hat, i suppose it is the same with a rotary . good one day / useless another day, so what do PW members think are the the Best Decoys ??, Saying all this most of what i learned with Archie Coats book still stands well, 

[marsh man]

A good number of gadgets have already been tried , these are mainly locked away until someone else give them a thought , On one of the game fairs I went to I saw Chris Green sitting in a bale hide throwing these like flying saucers into a decoy setup , these were suppose to attract a passing Pigeon , exactly the same idea that Archie Coates done with a dead Pigeon , the three and four arm version of the magnet never really reached the same numbers of the two arm version , then there was a four arm version with a cog on the motor to make the four birds go up and down when they are rotating in circles , another one that is rarely used .

Another method that was about in the ole books in the 60s were using two live Pigeons that had been brought up from the egg stage , these were ( trained ) to flap when an approaching Pigeon come along and one or two must have died an early death by lead poisoning , and now would be totally illegal to use .

Then there was the decoy that glided down a length of cord , a lot of messing about if you had to keep pulling it back up just to see it come down again .

One day we were cleaning some ole cabinets out up the hall where I used to work and we came across some brand new very early duck decoys that had never seen a drop of water ,these would now be collectors items , also a rubber flapping Pigeon decoy that had wire springs connected to the wings and another fine spring that you hooked on a branch , this must have been one of the very early flapping devices that were sold and again I would had thought late 60s or early 70s , this had never been used and was in mint condition , I did hint I would have loved it as a retirement present but sadly it fell on deaf ears and I never got it , no doubt it is tucked away in another cabinet up the hall , that will stay there until they have another clear out , then I doubt anyone will ever know what it was made to do when it was first made all those years ago , times move on.    MM

[old'un]

I don't really understand pigeons but from my observations on winter rape they seem more shy of the rotary in January and February, perhaps because they have been shot at so much they become wary of the pattern we lay out for them, its possible they learn the danger signs….a number of static birds close to cover (a hedge) two birds doing tight circles and square-ish box that someone pops up from and takes a shot at them, now if you get 5 or 10 birds coming into this pattern and you manage to kill 2 the ones that got away have been educated.

Dead birds are the best decoys and a rotary works more often than not.

 

[marsh man]

46 minutes ago, old'un said:

I don't really understand pigeons but from my observations on winter rape they seem more shy of the rotary in January and February, perhaps because they have been shot at so much they become wary of the pattern we lay out for them, its possible they learn the danger signs….a number of static birds close to cover (a hedge) two birds doing tight circles and square-ish box that someone pops up from and takes a shot at them, now if you get 5 or 10 birds coming into this pattern and you manage to kill 2 the ones that got away have been educated.

Dead birds are the best decoys and a rotary works more often than not.

 

We have covered the use of the rotary loads and loads of times and we know fully well there is not a 100% sure way of using it to the full effect , in fact the last few years when I have used one it have often created a shot but I cannot remember when a pigeon last came into the decoys with the rotary running .

Once the crops were harvested last Summer I never took out the rotary once , how nice it was to put out a decent set of decoys with maybe two floaters well out and each side of the decoy pattern , not every time but for a lot of the times you see a Pigeon well out , they see your decoys and come in like the days of the past , no jinking , or taking evasive action when they a 60 or so yards out , I agree that some of them might be young ones but old ones can still be fooled by decent decoys , while the rotary do work on certain days then everyone will still use one hopping it is the perfect day , with them now been out a good number of years , the problem is no one still don't know what the perfect day is until the day is in progress , or the day is over .   MM

[oldypigeonpopper]

4 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, interesting thread, i can only go back to 1960/1970s when it was rubber deeks and flappers on a string, Parsons was the main sellers of pigeon shooting gear, i did have a set of lofting poles but it was all basic stuff, fast forward to today where there is a lot of new ideas like the Rotary but like people say , every day is different to what works, as many did on PW i bought a Rotary but after a few tries i did not do any good, its a lot of gear for one person to carry/set up, now i just take a basic kit, 2 floaters on poles and various decoys, although i have not done any pigeon shooting for a long time now, I use flocked decoys, I always feel even these are getting old hat, i suppose it is the same with a rotary . good one day / useless another day, so what do PW members think are the the Best Decoys ??, Saying all this most of what i learned with Archie Coats book still stands well, 

Hello, OK well i think i might invest in some more Pigeon Decoys ( Just in Case 🙄😀) , i like the flocked shells/whole body types that i use now but any others recommended ,  Sillsocks , no shine shells, ????

[mellors]

37 minutes ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, OK well i think i might invest in some more Pigeon Decoys ( Just in Case 🙄😀) , i like the flocked shells/whole body types that i use now but any others recommended ,  Sillsocks , no shine shells, ????

Hi

I would stick with what you have and get yourself where they want to be. 

There's no kit made that works if your in the wrong spot. 

Time spent watching is the only way and even then they sometimes clear off. 

That's pigeon shooting. 

[Sweet11-87]

im sure they do start to see the signs. was out a few weeks back, sat and watched them for an hour they got spooked twice so the field emptied and both times they came back. so we spooked them off again and set up, they started landing other end of the field, so again we moved them off and set up quick. when they returned they went back to the first spot. They get shot allot at this permission and someone is out most days at them. they 100% wanted to be in this particular field they just stayed well away from decoys and once a few live birds were on the floor moving around a bit further away its game over for plastic shells

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 18/05/2024 at 14:18, mellors said:

Hi

I would stick with what you have and get yourself where they want to be. 

There's no kit made that works if your in the wrong spot. 

Time spent watching is the only way and even then they sometimes clear off. 

That's pigeon shooting. 

Hello, i do not go often and just rely on being informed at the time but its been a lean 2 years on Pigeons were i can shoot, i just thought a few more deeks might be useful, There maybe a chance on the Barley this year once that starts to turn, 🤔

Edited May 20 by oldypigeonpopper

[marsh man]

On 18/05/2024 at 14:18, mellors said:

Hi

I would stick with what you have and get yourself where they want to be. 

There's no kit made that works if your in the wrong spot. 

Time spent watching is the only way and even then they sometimes clear off. 

That's pigeon shooting. 

I think the art of Pigeon decoying is very similar to fishing , I used to take fishing parties out to sea , I was under the impression that you put some bait on your hooks and you all stood the same chance , how wrong was I , you watch a decoyer who have spent years and years looking at flight lines , wind directions and looking at where the pigeons want to feed and many other signs that was just natural to him , when they all slot in place he then set up and spread his decoys out to get the maximum effect , he then make it look fairly easy and the pigeons start to respond nicely , back to sea fishing , I would sometimes sit next door to a ole hand who would nearly always catch more than me , he would put a float on his trace to keep the bait off the sea bed , bait all the way up to the top of trace if we were after Cod , change weights with the tide conditions and so on , all normal stuff to him but with me it was putting a lug worm on the hook and hope for the best , the odd day it worked but a lot of days it either partly worked , or not at all , same with the once in a while decoyer .    MM

[old'un]

8 minutes ago, marsh man said:

I think the art of Pigeon decoying is very similar to fishing , I used to take fishing parties out to sea , I was under the impression that you put some bait on your hooks and you all stood the same chance , how wrong was I , you watch a decoyer who have spent years and years looking at flight lines , wind directions and looking at where the pigeons want to feed and many other signs that was just natural to him , when they all slot in place he then set up and spread his decoys out to get the maximum effect , he then make it look fairly easy and the pigeons start to respond nicely , back to sea fishing , I would sometimes sit next door to a ole hand who would nearly always catch more than me , he would put a float on his trace to keep the bait off the sea bed , bait all the way up to the top of trace if we were after Cod , change weights with the tide conditions and so on , all normal stuff to him but with me it was putting a lug worm on the hook and hope for the best , the odd day it worked but a lot of days it either partly worked , or not at all , same with the once in a while decoyer .    MM

I have seen a couple of complete novices shoot a big bag on rape stubble.

Edited May 20 by old'un

[oldypigeonpopper]

3 hours ago, marsh man said:

I think the art of Pigeon decoying is very similar to fishing , I used to take fishing parties out to sea , I was under the impression that you put some bait on your hooks and you all stood the same chance , how wrong was I , you watch a decoyer who have spent years and years looking at flight lines , wind directions and looking at where the pigeons want to feed and many other signs that was just natural to him , when they all slot in place he then set up and spread his decoys out to get the maximum effect , he then make it look fairly easy and the pigeons start to respond nicely , back to sea fishing , I would sometimes sit next door to a ole hand who would nearly always catch more than me , he would put a float on his trace to keep the bait off the sea bed , bait all the way up to the top of trace if we were after Cod , change weights with the tide conditions and so on , all normal stuff to him but with me it was putting a lug worm on the hook and hope for the best , the odd day it worked but a lot of days it either partly worked , or not at all , same with the once in a while decoyer .    MM

Hello, Your right MM, These days i am a chuck it and chance it on fishing, Decoying if i get a few shots and some pigeon that is enough for me, Up till January this year i shot a lot of rats so not all doom and gloom, 

[marsh man]

3 hours ago, old'un said:

I have seen a couple of complete novices shoot a big bag on rape stubble.

Rape stubble more or less come at a time when you would get the maximum amount of youngsters about and t b h you haven't got to be an expert to shoot Pigeons on most stubble around that time of the year , I left our rape stubbles last year as the stalks were like steel rods and I didn't want my dog running through that as we had more than enough grain and Pea stubble to play about with , it also make a difference in how long the stubble is left , with a lot hot dry spell our rape stubble didn't come into leaf and was left for at least three weeks before the farm foreman took his boy for the afternoon when the kids were on there Summers holiday , novices can easily be put off Pigeon shooting after shooting a good bag over stubble's as they will be brought back down to earth if they shot the Rape field on a cold January day when there is a lot of other rape fields in the near by fields .     MM

[Westley]

I can remember the first of the rotary machines, the 2 guys that marketed the device even made a video that came with the machine. My shooting pal bought one. The first time we came to use it, I provided the birds from my 'game' freezer. We were to shoot a field of laid barley, which entailed a walk of about 1/2 mile. "We won't need any decoys" announced my pal (who had watched the supplied video). I put the decoys in their bag, and left them at the rear of the vehicle. "Guess who is coming back for them"  ? I said.

Anyway, after building a 2 man hide and the rotary in place on a laid patch, with no other decoys, I was putting the finishing touches to the hide whilst the first birds were trying to land. From outside the hide, I removed my gun from its slip, stuffed 2 cartridges in shot the first 2 birds. I was in full view, but the birds ignored me. We carried on until we had around 120 birds, at which point we stopped. I only had space in my freezer for about 100 birds, so we stopped shooting. As it was an entirely new concept to decoying, it worked entirely without any other decoys. That did not last for long though. I later made 2 lightweight machines using the motors from 2 electric kids scooter things, that the Grandkids had wrecked. They were great and fixed to a child's aluminium stilts, they worked a treat. The footrest on the stilts provided a means of stamping them into the ground. I too have given up pigeon shooting now, I gave all of my gear away to various shooters, although I have kept a seat and a hide........just in case.

[Minky]

Does anyone know when the first commercial rotary was on the market.?  Back in 1987 on the eve of the hurricane (storm) I went to Maidstone and met the inventor of the flapper (Sid Semark).  A very clever man who was an engineer and inventor.  Back then I was a young bloke with a young family and all of this stuff was a lot of money. BUT I  was a clever engineer and I soon made a flapper that was  very similar to Sids.  The next thought was to motorise my flapper. I  spent many many hours finding stuff to make it out of.  The MK 500b did work but it used to shake itself to bits.  I decided that the motor driven flapper wasn't better than the string powered Jobby and dragging battery out to a field made my mind up and 500b was declared redundant.  When I went decoying I was loaded down like a donkey as it was without taking a battery along.  I  never ventured into a rotary for the same reason. I've still got and use the string powered flapper that I made back in 1987.  It has lured hundreds of pigeons into the pattern over those 37 years. 

[old'un]

14 hours ago, Minky said:

Does anyone know when the first commercial rotary was on the market.?  Back in 1987 on the eve of the hurricane (storm) I went to Maidstone and met the inventor of the flapper (Sid Semark).  A very clever man who was an engineer and inventor.  Back then I was a young bloke with a young family and all of this stuff was a lot of money. BUT I  was a clever engineer and I soon made a flapper that was  very similar to Sids.  The next thought was to motorise my flapper. I  spent many many hours finding stuff to make it out of.  The MK 500b did work but it used to shake itself to bits.  I decided that the motor driven flapper wasn't better than the string powered Jobby and dragging battery out to a field made my mind up and 500b was declared redundant.  When I went decoying I was loaded down like a donkey as it was without taking a battery along.  I  never ventured into a rotary for the same reason. I've still got and use the string powered flapper that I made back in 1987.  It has lured hundreds of pigeons into the pattern over those 37 years. 

funny you should say that as I was a toolmaker before retiring and I also made a type of string operated flapper around 1980, made from a straightened clock spring and two pieces of string attached to each and those were attached to a single line witch was pulled to give the appearance of flapping wings, it worked sometimes but was a faff to set up, specially on standing crops. 

 

[marsh man]

5 hours ago, old'un said:

funny you should say that as I was a toolmaker before retiring and I also made a type of string operated flapper around 1980, made from a straightened clock spring and two pieces of string attached to each and those were attached to a single line witch was pulled to give the appearance of flapping wings, it worked sometimes but was a faff to set up, specially on standing crops. 

 

I wonder how many of these devices were home made ? , I know the very early ones were operated by pulling a length of cord as I have got one in my garage that a member gave me a while back , moving to the next level with a battery operated device was quite a jump up from the basic cord pulled ones , I dare say that most mechanical mined Pigeon shooters had a dabble in making one up .