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Triumph Herald help


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It is so long I worked on my Vitesse 6 (I sold it in 1984 or so and the Equipe was conventional negative earth) that I don't know if it makes a difference to if it will start but not run but is this an early POSITIVE EARTHED Triumph? I think some were as was, from memory, the Vitesse 6 with the 1600cc engine. And you've wired the battery in as conventional negative earth? Yet the ignition coil and dynamo are connected up for a positive earth? I don't know if the 12/50 is different from the 13/60 or whatever the four pot Heralds were. Earthing polarity will affect how ignition coil and dynamo need to be wired. The only other think might be damaged butterfly valves on the manifolds?

Edited by enfieldspares
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Converted to alternator and negative earth. We will see what next week brings when the new solenoid arrives. The more worrying part is that he has bought another Fairthorpe Electron, which needs a total rebuild. 🙂

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When I started at the AAIn 1978 Heralds were quite common so I've seen loads.

It runs on easy start  that tells us there is a spark and compression so valves are closing at the required time. If the ignition timing were significantly out we would get backfiring through the inlet or exhaust. The spark could be failing under compression such that its not hot enough to ignite petrol. In those days most uk cars used Champion plugs I'd try another set. New HT leads too. When the electronic ignition was fitted was the coil changed? Many electronic systems used a coil with a lower primary resistance to give a hotter spark.

If our spark is remaining good under compression then it is lack of fuel. Bent carb needles. Inlet manifold leak? Cracked manifold, servo hose leak?Have you had a vacuum gauge on it? Do the carbs have the float chambers at the sides so you can look into them. The HIF carbs were a pain as you could not see in them but were regarded as an improvement at the time. 

And that is the extent of my thoughts at this time.

An aside about spark plugs, it was well known for Vauxhall 2.3 ohc to only run well on AC Delco plugs, and I had a 91 Subaru that would only run well on NGK.

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HT leads are new, but I will check the plugs. The coil is fairly old and you might have a point about the electronic ignition. Manifold has no visible cracks and I have double checked for leaks.. I don't think the original car had servo assisted brakes. I can't even find a takeoff for the vacuum advance.

Carbs are allegedly fully reconditioned, but floats appear to function properly.

It all sounds a bit negative saying that we have checked all the matters raised on the thread, but a few sound promising. After checking ignition and valve timing, I think we need to look again at plugs and coil (which is about the the only not brand new item).

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More coil thoughts.  Once you've got the solenoid sorted and the engine cranking , get it cranking in total darkness and watch the top of the coil. If you see blue sparks dancing about then you have a few choices. Dirty neck of coil, high resistance ht lead(s), high resistance spark plug(s), high resistance rotor arm(unusual for this distributor to have a resistor in the rotor). If it is the same coil as used with points and condenser I would change it for an electronic suitable coil anyway  because you are missing out if you don't. 

 

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It is the same coil as when it had points and condenser. No coil came with the original car and it was one I had in my garage for some years. Given what he has already replaced, a new coil won't break the bank.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Your going back now,I worked as mobile mechanic using a sun machine from 1989 to about 2001 there was plenty of vintage cars needing set up, cars in bits no paint,brakes,wheels, lying in someone's garage. If the distributor can only go in the one way, the drive for the distributor has to be set. As you already said compression at No 1 cylinder, rotor arm pointing to No 1 spark plug lead, correct firing order and dont presume the distributor goes anti clockwise check it.

Take the coil lead out the distributor cap still connected to coil. hold the ht lead(with **** bag pliers) to an earth point car body etc turn engine over and increase the gap for the spark to jump an you should easy go to half inch or more (A good strong spark) if not coil poss faulty,remove distributor cap and try the ht lead on the top of the rotor arm if the rotor arm takes a spark then it is faulty crack etc. It's diff to say it's like diagnosing over the phone. It sounds like A fuel problem. If it starts when using easy start and it sounds that it's running on four cylinders then you would think timing is ok ish

or it would be backfiring and popping out the carbs. If plugs are soaked right away it's flooding out .  As said blocked exhaust is a another thing crack the exhaust open at the manifold see what happens . Overflow fuel pipes on the carburetors if fitted make sure not blocked or fitted wrongly   I've built reconditioned engines an believe it or not wouldn't start or run properly until the air box and filter was fitted.  When I think of what I want to type it changes as I type 🤣

Let us know how you get on. best a luck

 

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 05/06/2024 at 18:54, Gordon R said:

Twin SU's - already thinned out the oil in the dampeners.

 

 

That's not the original carb setup on a triumph herald . They had a single carb as I remember

 Are they compatible carbs and manifold?

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Posted (edited)

Stuart said he wanted a bit more power - I had to laugh. It was originally a single SU carb. He had to buy inlet and exhaust manifolds, plus two carbs, the latter costing around £500 to recondition. Not heard from him in last week or so, as he was awaiting a new solenoid. 

Got quite a few things to check, but I will honestly be relieved when it finally fires up - running properly. The rest of the car could be finished quite quickly, although it does need some fibreglass to the bonnet and a respray. I did wonder who would be doing the spraying, but not sure I will have to break out the crystal ball.

This is what the finished car should look like.

1200px-1959_Fairthorpe_Electron_Minor_1.6_Front.jpg

Edited by Gordon R
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4 hours ago, Gordon R said:

Stuart said he wanted a bit more power - I had to laugh. It was originally a single SU carb. He had to buy inlet and exhaust manifolds, plus two carbs, the latter costing around £500 to recondition. Not heard from him in last week or so, as he was awaiting a new solenoid. 

Got quite a few things to check, but I will honestly be relieved when it finally fires up - running properly. The rest of the car could be finished quite quickly, although it does need some fibreglass to the bonnet and a respray. I did wonder who would be doing the spraying, but not sure I will have to break out the crystal ball.

This is what the finished car should look like.

1200px-1959_Fairthorpe_Electron_Minor_1.6_Front.jpg

Gives an all new meaning to, 'plus 2'.

Oh, OK, I'll get me coat.

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