Keir Starmer in Berlin to "reset" Brexit

[Raja Clavata]

14 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Only because twice now, separate from the Basel incident, these bilious cretins have been so engaged in holding court with their fellow passengers, they’ve actually held everyone up because they haven’t noticed it’s their turn.

What makes them bilious cretins, holding court, not noticing it’s their turn, or both. Just trying to work out if I fit in the bilious cretin camp…

14 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Unsurprisingly, I had to look up how to spell Koninklijke Marechaussee, also translated as the Royal Military Constabulary, is the national gendarmerie force of the Netherlands - according to Wikipedia.  Therefore I took a punt and assumed a female officer, in English, would be referred to as a Gendarmette - as we have no English word for it!

Sounds like a fair bit of effort, for nothing.

[CaptC]

[udderlyoffroad]

On 31/08/2024 at 08:03, Raja Clavata said:

Sounds like a fair bit of effort, for nothing.

2 seconds to google the spelling of an organisation, during which I learned something?  Yes, what a waste of my life. 🤣  Should've used for something productive, like writing a 'what I had for me tea' thread

 

On 31/08/2024 at 08:56, CaptC said:

I voted for Brexit and am happy to concede there's some absolute roasters in there - Hanan's suggestion, circa 2015 of remaining in the single market was never going to fly, to pick one example.

But....Just imagine if someone took the effort to create a graphic of no-context, ridiculous claims made by the remain side?  The Super Gonorrhoea claim springs to mind.  Do you honestly think that BDS sufferers would even acknowledge something they said half a decade ago was blatant fear mongering, much less admit it was wrong?  I doubt it.

Frankly I'd settle for an admission, from just one Remainer, that not everything the EU does is positive, and not everything the UK does is negative.

[TIGHTCHOKE]

5 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Frankly I'd settle for an admission, from just one Remainer, that not everything the EU does is positive, and not everything the UK does is negative.

Wouldn't we all, but DON'T hold your breath waiting........................................

[CaptC]

One positive - The EU does not allow sewage to be dumped in rivers or the sea - which started here as soon as the ink dried? Oh, yes, the old favourite - fresh fruit and veg that doesn't rot on the way home in the car in the UK!

[Raja Clavata]

5 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

Frankly I'd settle for an admission, from just one Remainer, that not everything the EU does is positive, and not everything the UK does is negative.

No issue for me, not in any way a contentious point and never has been as far as I’m concerned.

I’d appreciate a Brexiteer reciprocating with one aspect of Brexit which benefits me personally. 

[Weihrauch17]

30 minutes ago, CaptC said:

One positive - The EU does not allow sewage to be dumped in rivers or the sea - which started here as soon as the ink dried? Oh, yes, the old favourite - fresh fruit and veg that doesn't rot on the way home in the car in the UK!

Didn't you watch the Olympics, the Seine was so full of sewage events had to be postponed for days on end.

[udderlyoffroad]

37 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

No issue for me, not in any way a contentious point and never has been as far as I’m concerned.

👍You're far more rational than the people I was alluding to, you seemingly are prepared to accept shades of grey rather than everything having to be black or white.

39 minutes ago, Raja Clavata said:

I’d appreciate a Brexiteer reciprocating with one aspect of Brexit which benefits me personally. 

See it's that word personally...I don't know enough of your personal circumstances to know what benefits you personally; this thread was dealing at the macro, not micro level... That said, I've been able to surmise that you travel a lot in Europe for work, and are not impressed with individual countries lumping UK nationals in with the 'other' lane at immigration.  As discussed, to me, it's a swings/roundabouts situation and gets lost in the noise and general time-suck that is air travel.  So let's start small and say you get to enjoy 'duty-free prices' for booze and fags again 🤣

1 hour ago, CaptC said:

One positive - The EU does not allow sewage to be dumped in rivers or the sea - which started here as soon as the ink dried? 

🤣 Not even close to accurate.

1 hour ago, CaptC said:

Oh, yes, the old favourite - fresh fruit and veg that doesn't rot on the way home in the car in the UK!

Can I suggest you start by buying British-sourced produce, in season, from a greengrocer?  You'll find an improvement in both shelf stability and quality, for likely less money, time and effort to go somewhere other than a supermarket notwithstanding.

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, CaptC said:

One positive - The EU does not allow sewage to be dumped in rivers or the sea 

That's why the Triathlon in the Paris Olympics was delayed for a day while they let the sewage in the Seine wash down stream enough to allow the competitors to swim in it ?

If you read the labels on the supermarket food we buy you will find most of it still comes from countries in the EU. Tomatoes and cucumbers from Spain, mushrooms from Poland, onions from Holland.  Nothing has changed in that respect since Brexit. The only difference now is that we buy them because we choose to, not because we are forced to.

[Mungler]

Anyone who can remember the 80’s will remember that our relationship with the EU was fractious to say the least. There’s a whole generation now filled with the groovy nonsense that the EU was the land of milk and honey.

Of all the remainers I know the primary gripe (which is often hidden) is that Brexit has screwed up their time share / second home / travel plans.

I was told by an IFA about two decades ago that the EU would collapse +\- 5 years from my anticipated retirement date and when it did, there would be an almighty meltdown. 

It’s all eyes on Germany / France right now. If they pull stumps it’s game over. 

Whenever I’ve travelled to Spain or Portugal everyone has openly admitted how wonderful the EU was simply because they got out more than they put in (and they love their lovely new roads etc). 

[CaptC]

2 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

👍You're far more rational than the people I was alluding to, you seemingly are prepared to accept shades of grey rather than everything having to be black or white.

See it's that word personally...I don't know enough of your personal circumstances to know what benefits you personally; this thread was dealing at the macro, not micro level... That said, I've been able to surmise that you travel a lot in Europe for work, and are not impressed with individual countries lumping UK nationals in with the 'other' lane at immigration.  As discussed, to me, it's a swings/roundabouts situation and gets lost in the noise and general time-suck that is air travel.  So let's start small and say you get to enjoy 'duty-free prices' for booze and fags again 🤣

🤣 Not even close to accurate.

Can I suggest you start by buying British-sourced produce, in season, from a greengrocer?  You'll find an improvement in both shelf stability and quality, for likely less money, time and effort to go somewhere other than a supermarket notwithstanding.

We (or rather my partner) is an eco friendly organic shopper and used local farm shops when she can. We buy from local farm shops rather than the carp in most supermarkets. 
If we do have to buy from a supermarket it doesn’t last long. 
Why should we have to search for farm shops because imported food has been sitting in a lorry for days?

 

[Yellow Bear]

3 minutes ago, CaptC said:

Why should we have to search for farm shops because imported food has been sitting in a lorry for days?

Because the EU bureaucrats are "punishing UK" for having the audacity to pull the plug on some of their gravy train by not throwing cash into their trough.

[old man]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

No issue for me, not in any way a contentious point and never has been as far as I’m concerned.

I’d appreciate a Brexiteer reciprocating with one aspect of Brexit which benefits me personally. 

Surely you appreciate the benefit of having such brilliant, caring, honest politicians directly in charge of your well-being and future? 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Vince Green]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

 

Whenever I’ve travelled to Spain or Portugal everyone has openly admitted how wonderful the EU was simply because they got out more than they put in (and they love their lovely new roads etc). 

My late shooting friend was Greek (from the mainland not Cyprus). He said much the same about Greece, he said when they joined it was like money was falling from the sky.

Despite that he was always opposed to the idea of the EU.  His instinctive distrust of Germany never left him.

He was a very clever man, a hospital consultant at a big London hospital, massively well read but his view of the EU never wavered. He just said it could never work, how could it?

Sadly, he died before Brexit, he would have loved all this

[oowee]

4 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

No issue for me, not in any way a contentious point and never has been as far as I’m concerned.

I’d appreciate a Brexiteer reciprocating with one aspect of Brexit which benefits me personally. 

No issue with me either and never has been. 

Brexit bonus..... ? That benefits me or anyone, or the UK....... No I give up on that one. 

Aggh I forgot the thousands employed to check goods through customs and the thousands employed to complete customs declarations. 

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

Because the EU bureaucrats are "punishing UK" for having the audacity to pull the plug on some of their gravy train by not throwing cash into their trough.

🤣

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, Vince Green said:

My late shooting friend was Greek (from the mainland not Cyprus). He said much the same about Greece, he said when they joined it was like money was falling from the sky.

Despite that he was always opposed to the idea of the EU.  His instinctive distrust of Germany never left him.

He was a very clever man, a hospital consultant at a big London hospital, massively well read but his view of the EU never wavered. He just said it could never work, how could it?

Sadly, he died before Brexit, he would have loved all this

Did your friend ever shoot in the Dartford area and have a personalised number plate? Red Jag IIRC?

[Vince Green]

14 minutes ago, Mungler said:

Did your friend ever shoot in the Dartford area and have a personalised number plate? Red Jag IIRC?

I can't see him going as far as Dartford

 He drove a blue jag at one time then a volvo estate

[Mungler]

1 hour ago, oowee said:

No issue with me either and never has been. 

Brexit bonus..... ? That benefits me or anyone, or the UK....... No I give up on that one. 

Aggh I forgot the thousands employed to check goods through customs and the thousands employed to complete customs declarations. 

🤣

Interesting article just popped in the Telegraph.

The EU is in deep trouble.

 

[Weihrauch17]

He is vowing to get concert ticket prices down!  How about energy costs you total and utter clown, blown out of all proportion by the insane Net Zero costs.

[Mungler]

14 hours ago, Raja Clavata said:

No issue for me, not in any way a contentious point and never has been as far as I’m concerned.

I’d appreciate a Brexiteer reciprocating with one aspect of Brexit which benefits me personally. 

I missed off the best bit of the Matthew Lynn article in the Telegraph 😆

 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, Mungler said:

I missed off the best bit of the Matthew Lynn article in the Telegraph 😆

 

I wish we had only the economic troubles of Germany. 🤣

[Mungler]

If Germany goes skint and or people in the EU stop buying their manufactured goods, it’s game over for the EU. He who pays the piper calls the tune etc. 

There’s a new generation of non EU enamoured Germans coming through too to factor in.

[Raja Clavata]

15 hours ago, udderlyoffroad said:

👍You're far more rational than the people I was alluding to, you seemingly are prepared to accept shades of grey rather than everything having to be black or white.

See it's that word personally...I don't know enough of your personal circumstances to know what benefits you personally; this thread was dealing at the macro, not micro level... That said, I've been able to surmise that you travel a lot in Europe for work, and are not impressed with individual countries lumping UK nationals in with the 'other' lane at immigration.  As discussed, to me, it's a swings/roundabouts situation and gets lost in the noise and general time-suck that is air travel.  So let's start small and say you get to enjoy 'duty-free prices' for booze and fags again 🤣

 

I’m very much of the opinion that the more you experience of the world, life and pretty much all things in general the more you appreciate the complexities that lead to the shades of grey. Of course that’s not to ignore matters that are obviously black and white👍

I guess I’ll take the duty free booze point 😆

What about you personally then, do you feel you’ve gained from Brexit?

For me it’s not just the travel, that’s a frequent reminder but there’s also more subtle things, it’s generally accepted that corporately our careers have been hindered through Brexit. It’s both unfair and unreasonable but compounded by a tendency to favour French employees over everyone else combined with a frenzied approach to DEI targets, it makes it really quite a challenge for a straight white middle aged British male to get on whilst based in the UK, even in a global role. Why should I have to move to Germany/elsewhere to get a VP position doing exactly the same job as I would be doing in the UK.

[Raja Clavata]

2 hours ago, Mungler said:

I missed off the best bit of the Matthew Lynn article in the Telegraph 😆

 

Interesting choice of best bit from the article, I’d pick “… without it Britain will be condemned to permanent stagnation…”

The topic of EU failure was discussed extensively on this forum previously and questions related to impact to UK under both the in and out scenarios were never discussed in detail. 

What I do find fascinating is the rabid anti-EU at all costs minority that don’t seem to get the fact that a failed EU has a significant impact on us regardless.

[12gauge82]

For me, I have seen no real world benefit of Brexit yet, other than feeling I live in a semi sovereign nation again, rather than being dictated to from unelected foreign powers. I believe the reason we haven't seen huge fundamental benefits, is because we've had no huge fundamental changes, due to the huge numbers of remainers in parliament who, like on the issue of immigration have gone against the will of the country and done all they can to keep it like we've never left, hence keeping much of what was bad to be a EU member, while not seeing any real benefit. 

Negatives are the same, I've seen no real world negatives from Brexit other than filling a few extra forms in for dogs I don't have passports for when I travel abroad. 

To sum it up, no change either way.