Interesting trouble ahead

[39TDS]

The very big and very real issue with Vat on school fees is that it has (as predicted) made it too expensive for a lot of people.

The result is those children now have to go to state schools where it is going to cost the Government a lot more that it has made from the VAT and most likely result in a poorer outcome for all, including the ones already in the state schools.

[JohnfromUK]

Just now, 39TDS said:

The very big and very real issue with Vat on school fees is that it has (as predicted) made it too expensive for a lot of people.

The result is those children now have to go to state schools where it is going to cost the Government a lot more that it has made from the VAT and most likely result in a poorer outcome for all, including the ones already in the state schools.

That and the fact that quite a lot of 'special needs' pupils go to fee paying schools, paid for (partly) from public funds as it is both cheaper and better for the children that to accommodate those needs in state schools.  However, with additional vat, some of those schools will close as they are not usually the 'big names' like Eton, but smaller local schools.

[armsid]

And when the schools close so do job losses and skills which will impact on pupils and parents lives

[Vince Green]

On 25/09/2024 at 19:17, Gordon R said:

oowee - I thought your sources would have been better. That is just the tip of the iceberg. There is very little interest in uncovering fraud - DWP and HMRC just turn a blind eye.

I don't think they can be bothered to turn a blind eye. Even that would require a modicum of effort to achieve. 

If you don't look in the first place, you don't find anything that requires a blind eye.

I've told this story before, years ago my cousin worked in a job centre in Merseyside. They were told, and it came from the top, no matter how unbelievable the story was just give them the money. Don't argue and don't query it. We don't want them kicking off in here or waiting outside for you when you leave at 5 o'clock to beat you up.

Edited October 6 by Vince Green

[armsid]

While we are on about pensions how much is it costing us to pay the pensions of the EU  ministers and all the public sector that draw taxpayer funded pensions well below state pension age 

[chrisv]

On 06/10/2024 at 19:17, armsid said:

While we are on about pensions how much is it costing us to pay the pensions of the EU  ministers and all the public sector that draw taxpayer funded pensions well below state pension age 

A quote from the Telegraph a few weeks ago regarding Public Sector Pensions 

“The result is that over the past 50 years or so a huge government debt has been built up in the form of all these pension promises- a debt which is now so colossal, at about £2.6 trillion, that it is actually slightly larger than the official national debt “

It’s the elephant in the room that no party dare mention.

 

[oowee]

1 hour ago, chrisv said:

A quote from the Telegraph a few weeks ago regarding Public Sector Pensions 

“The result is that over the past 50 years or so a huge government debt has been built up in the form of all these pension promises- a debt which is now so colossal, at about £2.6 trillion, that it is actually slightly larger than the official national debt “

It’s the elephant in the room that no party dare mention.

 

It's all state paid pensions. 

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, oowee said:

It's all state paid pensions. 

No, according to this  https://mallowstreet.com/Article/b74413 article its "Public sector pensions are the largest liability within government with more than £2.6tn in 2021-22"

[oowee]

3 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

No, according to this  https://mallowstreet.com/Article/b74413 article its "Public sector pensions are the largest liability within government with more than £2.6tn in 2021-22"

Nhs pension pays more in than it pays out. Govt spends the surplus 😵‍💫 same with State pension liability. Liability is increasing and no funding arrangements. 

It would be interesting to see the trend. Most of the pensions I thought were now private. 

[Newbie to this]

Been saying this for years, most are no better than benefit scroungers. Their pensions are a joke. The whole civil service need a rethink and brought in line with the public sector.

But then what do we do with the wasters 

[old man]

2 hours ago, Newbie to this said:

Been saying this for years, most are no better than benefit scroungers. Their pensions are a joke. The whole civil service need a rethink and brought in line with the public sector.

But then what do we do with the wasters 

Steady on, that's a new one? That people who have worked 50 years and contributed are defined as being classed as benefit scroungers?

Maybe a better balance is to look at the all of the non contributors getting all?

[oldypigeonpopper]

On 06/10/2024 at 09:03, 39TDS said:

The very big and very real issue with Vat on school fees is that it has (as predicted) made it too expensive for a lot of people.

The result is those children now have to go to state schools where it is going to cost the Government a lot more that it has made from the VAT and most likely result in a poorer outcome for all, including the ones already in the state schools.

Hello, I read the VAT money will pay for Teacher training or take on qualified Teachers for State Schools ??

[Newbie to this]

7 hours ago, old man said:

Steady on, that's a new one? That people who have worked 50 years and contributed are defined as being classed as benefit scroungers?

Maybe a better balance is to look at the all of the non contributors getting all?

Paid in what exactly.

It's not just about pensions, it is their whole system of work. Many are on full time sick (on full pay), then you have those 'working' (not) from home, which many now want to be from anywhere in the world. The senior ones that I have met, have all employed people to do their job, so they don't have to. One even employed a cleaner (in a fully serviced building), so he didn't have to make tea/coffee himself.

They are (all) at it.......

 

Where there is tax payer's money, the fraud and scammers are rife, the civil service is no exception.

Edited October 9 by Newbie to this

[old man]

1 hour ago, Newbie to this said:

Paid in what exactly.

It's not just about pensions, it is their whole system of work. Many are on full time sick (on full pay), then you have those 'working' (not) from home, which many now want to be from anywhere in the world. The senior ones that I have met, have all employed people to do their job, so they don't have to. One even employed a cleaner (in a fully serviced building), so he didn't have to make tea/coffee himself.

They are (all) at it.......

 

Where there is tax payer's money, the fraud and scammers are rife, the civil service is no exception.

Frankly I don't link the two, not necessarily in disagreement with your comments about frauds and scams. Just look at the abysmal attitudes and performances of their bosses?

The blame lies squarely with the enablers?

[39TDS]

9 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said:

Hello, I read the VAT money will pay for Teacher training or take on qualified Teachers for State Schools ??

A bit of a pointless exercise then, taxing something then using the money raised to pay for the things needed as a result of taxing it in the first place. Sounds about right.

I wonder if they took into account all the money that will be needed to pay for the VAT refunds that the schools will claim for now they are eligible for VAT registration, is it 5 years prior they can reclaim?

[oldypigeonpopper]

1 minute ago, 39TDS said:

A bit of a pointless exercise then, taxing something then using the money raised to pay for the things needed as a result of taxing it in the first place. Sounds about right.

I wonder if they took into account all the money that will be needed to pay for the VAT refunds that the schools will claim for now they are eligible for VAT registration, is it 5 years prior they can reclaim?

Hello, Ah VAT refunds 🤔

[39TDS]

If the schools bought things they paid VAT on, once registered they can reclaim that VAT and it is normally backdated either 3 or 5 years (I can't remember which). I expect generally these type of schools buy expensive things on a regular basis, so providing they still own the item they can reclaim the VAT. It is going to be a fair old bill for the taxman.

[JohnfromUK]

6 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

If the schools bought things they paid VAT on, once registered they can reclaim that VAT and it is normally backdated either 3 or 5 years (I can't remember which). I expect generally these type of schools buy expensive things on a regular basis, so providing they still own the item they can reclaim the VAT. It is going to be a fair old bill for the taxman.

Ultimately when all things are taken into account, the final balance will be that very little money will be going to HM Treasury, but the Labour left will have had their 'victory' of 'hitting the evil rich' (not to mention spoiling a few children's lives and career paths).

It's pure spite.

[39TDS]

Of course it is, rich folk and pensioners are in for a rough time.

[Yellow Bear]

1 minute ago, 39TDS said:

Of course it is, rich folk and pensioners are in for a rough time.

You mean all those that are not on benefits or state employees then.

[oowee]

32 minutes ago, 39TDS said:

If the schools bought things they paid VAT on, once registered they can reclaim that VAT and it is normally backdated either 3 or 5 years (I can't remember which). I expect generally these type of schools buy expensive things on a regular basis, so providing they still own the item they can reclaim the VAT. It is going to be a fair old bill for the taxman.

Regardless of refunds it will be 20% on the value added. A significant contribution no doubt, even after the down trades.

What I have not got my head around is the proportion of private schools for children with learning or educational difficulties.

When I see friends with kids at Eton or Wellington paying £20k a term plus £40k extra curricula then 20% tax is doable. Of course there will be some on the margins. 

[old man]

1 hour ago, Yellow Bear said:

You mean all those that are not on benefits or state employees then.

Seems to be the uk way, budget and save, get penalised for being sensible?

Be a non contributor, get all sorts of financial help?

Leveling up?

[JohnfromUK]

5 minutes ago, old man said:

Leveling up?

The 'moderate' Labour describe it as "those with the broadest shoulders carrying the greatest load" or some such nonsense

The Left call it "long overdue redistibution of wealth"

The loony left call it "squeezing the rich until even the pips squeak"

What it actually is 9n many cases is a mix of greed, spite and jealousy by those too lazy, feckless and bone idle to make their own savings pot.

[Newbie to this]

8 hours ago, old man said:

Seems to be the uk way, budget and save, get penalised for being sensible?

Be a non contributor, get all sorts of financial help?

Leveling up?

It's the entirety of the EU model. Taking money from so called richer countries and distributing it to the so called poorer countries. Problem is those so called poorer countries, will be off as soon as it is their turn to pay up, and the so called richer countries are dragged down to the poorer countries level.

8 hours ago, JohnfromUK said:

The 'moderate' Labour describe it as "those with the broadest shoulders carrying the greatest load" or some such nonsense

The Left call it "long overdue redistibution of wealth"

The loony left call it "squeezing the rich until even the pips squeak"

What it actually is 9n many cases is a mix of greed, spite and jealousy by those too lazy, feckless and bone idle to make their own savings pot.

This, politics of envy.

Edited October 10 by Newbie to this

[oldypigeonpopper]

10 hours ago, 39TDS said:

Of course it is, rich folk and pensioners are in for a rough time.

Hello, It is front page news but not sure of details ?