Miserableolgit Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 Playing devils advocate here… Surely driving and flushing game birds with dogs, dogs pushing sitting birds must cause distress to the birds. Likewise dogs pegging birds, guns pricking and wounding birds etc. Surely there is more but I am sure you get the idea, perhaps there is plenty of scope for the antis in the shooting field too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Miserableolgit Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 (edited) Sorry, double post duly deleted. Edited November 30 by Miserableolgit Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mel b3 Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, Dafid69 said: I'm not a fan of fox hunts. I shoot them in lambing season. I'm not against the actual hunts. But I prefer to kill a fox humanely. I can only speak from my own very limited experience of fox hunting. Every fox that I've seen caught , was killed as quickly and cleanly , as a jack Russell killing a rat, and equally as cleanly as any fox that I've seen shot ( and ive seen plenty shot). I've been around fox hunting for the biggest part of my life , but , I'd never taken the slightest bit of interest , until it was banned . It was all of the fuss over the ban , that made me take a good look at it . When I looked , I realised that the majority of folks just enjoy the ride , and aren't really that fussed about foxes . Drag hunting seemed ( to me )to be the perfect compromise . It's a shame that the people that are interested in foxes , couldn't have been a little more discreet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 41 minutes ago, Dafid69 said: Wow. What do you know what I have or have not seen? Have an opinion but don't speak through your a**e to people on here. Just because it doesn't match yours doesn't give you the right to call me out. All you are is a typical name caller.. ( bully ) did I call you for your opinion? No....grow up and keep the topic in an adult manner or leave the thread. This is for shooters not kids in a playground I did not mean to pick on you specifically. Several people on this thread have made the same or similar remarks. And it is just not true. Death by hounds is generally as quick as a bullet, often quicker. And the other remark which people make about the fox being exhausted is equally as untrue. Total rubbish. I, too, shoot foxes with a rifle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 4 hours ago, Scully said: Don’t lock this thread just yet please, am off out shooting and would like my two pennarth worth. 🙂 Hello, Good luck for today Scully 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
islandgun Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, Miserableolgit said: Playing devils advocate here… Surely driving and flushing game birds with dogs, dogs pushing sitting birds must cause distress to the birds. Likewise dogs pegging birds, guns pricking and wounding birds etc. Surely there is more but I am sure you get the idea, perhaps there is plenty of scope for the antis in the shooting field too. This ^^^ Its not IF its WHEN all types of shooting will be banned, possible exception of clays but judging the type of people coming to the fore in this country, theres a good chancer that gun ownership will be a thing of the past Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dafid69 Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 3 hours ago, London Best said: I did not mean to pick on you specifically. Several people on this thread have made the same or similar remarks. And it is just not true. Death by hounds is generally as quick as a bullet, often quicker. And the other remark which people make about the fox being exhausted is equally as untrue. Total rubbish. I, too, shoot foxes with a rifle. That's fine but I didn't give any reason as to why I wasn't into hunts I just said it wasn't for me. The fact that I said shooting was humane didn't mean a hunt wasn't. I was very careful not to say that. That's why I bit back because I can have an opinion without being criticised for it. No harm done. You said your bit and I said mine. 😁👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 6 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, Good luck for today Scully 👍 Thanks OPP. It was hard work to be honest; I fell in a ditch which according to the keeper doesn’t exist …..it does, and it was deep. Two horses tried to eat my gun slip and then me, but they cantered off when I folded up a bird which six dogs ( including mine ) and four guns ( including me ) couldn’t find! So much cover in those reeds! The ground sucked like a big sucky thing and it was exceedingly warm! Was walking gun on next drive and just wasn’t in the right place…..birds rocketing out of the woods either too far in front or woefully behind! Got landed with the most mind-numbingly boring bloke at lunchtime whose life seemed to revolve around spreadsheets and something else I can’t recall as I must have drifted off for a while. To round it all off I shot like a plonker on the final drive ( for our team ) where I should have had half a dozen birds but only killed two, one of which was a rocketing driven cock which collapsed and folded up in the air well out in front. I followed its arc as it hit a tree twenty feet behind me and marked where it landed, only to find no trace -not even a feather - when the horn was blown ( annoyingly prematurely ) at drives end. Some good dogs searched for that bird but no joy. 🤷♂️ So I could only claim one after all! Highlights were a couple of good birds cleanly killed, a couple of really fit looking Roe bucks bolting out of cover, lots of Hare, quite a few Woodcock and a beaters cocker catching a rabbit as it launched itself off a low wall. The latter is now ferret food. The craic is always good however, no matter how the day goes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 Going back to the original post fox hunting is illegal . I have no problem either way with anything legal but when certain people find a way of doing something illegal then it should be bought to account quickly. A lot of these hunting people hold shotgun certificates and firearms certificates yet no one has the where with all to bring them to account when THEY blatantly break the law . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dougy Posted November 30 Author Report Share Posted November 30 (edited) Hounds on a fox is done and dusted in seconds. Written on paper what is seen does not read well. But the fox is dead before you've started the 2nd word. As for the chase a fit fox will 9 out of 10 tines loose a pack of hounds. I say if that's fine end the day, but I don't agree with digging out, stopping, false earth's. Just my opinion of course. Its a very poor way to control a pest, the antis did fox's no favour by pushing shooting as a preferred method of fox control with a far higher number of fox's getting culled. Edited November 30 by Dougy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
London Best Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 39 minutes ago, Scully said: Thanks OPP. It was hard work to be honest; I fell in a ditch which according to the keeper doesn’t exist …..it does, and it was deep. Two horses tried to eat my gun slip and then me, but they cantered off when I folded up a bird which six dogs ( including mine ) and four guns ( including me ) couldn’t find! So much cover in those reeds! The ground sucked like a big sucky thing and it was exceedingly warm! Was walking gun on next drive and just wasn’t in the right place…..birds rocketing out of the woods either too far in front or woefully behind! Got landed with the most mind-numbingly boring bloke at lunchtime whose life seemed to revolve around spreadsheets and something else I can’t recall as I must have drifted off for a while. To round it all off I shot like a plonker on the final drive ( for our team ) where I should have had half a dozen birds but only killed two, one of which was a rocketing driven cock which collapsed and folded up in the air well out in front. I followed its arc as it hit a tree twenty feet behind me and marked where it landed, only to find no trace -not even a feather - when the horn was blown ( annoyingly prematurely ) at drives end. Some good dogs searched for that bird but no joy. 🤷♂️ So I could only claim one after all! Highlights were a couple of good birds cleanly killed, a couple of really fit looking Roe bucks bolting out of cover, lots of Hare, quite a few Woodcock and a beaters cocker catching a rabbit as it launched itself off a low wall. The latter is now ferret food. The craic is always good however, no matter how the day goes. Nice write up Scully. I think we all have occasional days like that one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigbob Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 Dont think its all about the fox getting killed by hounds a lot of folk dont like seeing the hunt all dressed up and think its a class thing , then 40 riders ch asing the hounds must make some mess of the ground for one fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 Regarding antis and fieldsports, I think it’s less to do with animal welfare and more to do with anti establishment. The class system is still alive and well in this country, and the horse and hounds set along with all other fieldsports are regarded as the preserve of the elitist landed gentry and the privileged few, all regarded as the establishment. The BBC is part of this establishment also, whether it likes it or not, but its hypocrisy allows it to screen two blokes enjoying themselves by dragging fish out of its natural habitat via a hook through its mouth, even if it is catch and release. ‘Gone Fishing’ with Whitehouse and Mortimer are portrayed ( and indeed are ) as two normal working class blokes made good. It’s a good programme, enjoyable and relaxing to watch, but dress those two blokes in tweeds, put them in a ghillied boat ON the Tweed, and I doubt the feedback would be as favourable as it currently is. We now have reverse snobbery, which has its origins in wealth envy, and that’s all the ‘anti’ mantra is based upon. The irony is however, that if the antis usurped the establishment, what would that make them? Fox hunting is gone and it isn’t coming back; those involved have done themselves no favours at all, ( one reason being they couldn’t decide why they were doing it ) to the extent trail hunting is now also borderline acceptable. Lest game shooters think they’re safe, no one is fooled by the claim we’re in it for the sake of conservation. We create a suitable habitat for one reason, and one reason only. We need to be honest when asked, why we do it. Lest pigeon shooters think they’re safe , no one is fooled into thinking you’re providing an essential service to farmers. Everyone knows why you’re doing it. Some farmers want pigeons and crows shooting, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I know a LOT of farmers, and many are simply indifferently tolerable of pest species. We all shoot for one reason and it’s the same reason. We’re in this together, whether we like it or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 32 minutes ago, Scully said: Regarding antis and fieldsports, I think it’s less to do with animal welfare and more to do with anti establishment. The class system is still alive and well in this country, and the horse and hounds set along with all other fieldsports are regarded as the preserve of the elitist landed gentry and the privileged few, all regarded as the establishment. The BBC is part of this establishment also, whether it likes it or not, but its hypocrisy allows it to screen two blokes enjoying themselves by dragging fish out of its natural habitat via a hook through its mouth, even if it is catch and release. ‘Gone Fishing’ with Whitehouse and Mortimer are portrayed ( and indeed are ) as two normal working class blokes made good. It’s a good programme, enjoyable and relaxing to watch, but dress those two blokes in tweeds, put them in a ghillied boat ON the Tweed, and I doubt the feedback would be as favourable as it currently is. We now have reverse snobbery, which has its origins in wealth envy, and that’s all the ‘anti’ mantra is based upon. The irony is however, that if the antis usurped the establishment, what would that make them? Fox hunting is gone and it isn’t coming back; those involved have done themselves no favours at all, ( one reason being they couldn’t decide why they were doing it ) to the extent trail hunting is now also borderline acceptable. Lest game shooters think they’re safe, no one is fooled by the claim we’re in it for the sake of conservation. We create a suitable habitat for one reason, and one reason only. We need to be honest when asked, why we do it. Lest pigeon shooters think they’re safe , no one is fooled into thinking you’re providing an essential service to farmers. Everyone knows why you’re doing it. Some farmers want pigeons and crows shooting, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I know a LOT of farmers, and many are simply indifferently tolerable of pest species. We all shoot for one reason and it’s the same reason. We’re in this together, whether we like it or not. Some very good points, well made Scully. The only thing I'd chime in on is I think your absolutely right regarding a class issue with many of the anti brigade who also object to the likes of deer stalking and vermin shooting. I do think that the hunts biggest block these days are the general public, I don't believe it's simply a class issue, they're not complete idiots and they know 50 blokes dressing up, 20 horses and a pack of hounds isn't needed to control foxes, they're no longer tolerant of inhumane practices and like you've already said they will never accept it coming back. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldypigeonpopper Posted November 30 Report Share Posted November 30 1 hour ago, Scully said: Thanks OPP. It was hard work to be honest; I fell in a ditch which according to the keeper doesn’t exist …..it does, and it was deep. Two horses tried to eat my gun slip and then me, but they cantered off when I folded up a bird which six dogs ( including mine ) and four guns ( including me ) couldn’t find! So much cover in those reeds! The ground sucked like a big sucky thing and it was exceedingly warm! Was walking gun on next drive and just wasn’t in the right place…..birds rocketing out of the woods either too far in front or woefully behind! Got landed with the most mind-numbingly boring bloke at lunchtime whose life seemed to revolve around spreadsheets and something else I can’t recall as I must have drifted off for a while. To round it all off I shot like a plonker on the final drive ( for our team ) where I should have had half a dozen birds but only killed two, one of which was a rocketing driven cock which collapsed and folded up in the air well out in front. I followed its arc as it hit a tree twenty feet behind me and marked where it landed, only to find no trace -not even a feather - when the horn was blown ( annoyingly prematurely ) at drives end. Some good dogs searched for that bird but no joy. 🤷♂️ So I could only claim one after all! Highlights were a couple of good birds cleanly killed, a couple of really fit looking Roe bucks bolting out of cover, lots of Hare, quite a few Woodcock and a beaters cocker catching a rabbit as it launched itself off a low wall. The latter is now ferret food. The craic is always good however, no matter how the day goes. Hello, Sounds like a great day, If you catch up with annoying bloke again, rules are no work talk on a shoot day!!!!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spanj Posted December 1 Report Share Posted December 1 On 19/11/2024 at 14:18, Dave-G said: That's as seen through our eyes though Doug. I think its the most inhumane of blood sports to a creature that is capable of being aware of a threat on their life. This country has for many years had anti cruelty rules about how most animals are killed. The general public won't support killing animals just for fun or something to do - especially if it involves massive cruelty. Most people would abhor cock or dog fighting and badger digging too: It's not being done for food. There are more humane and discreet ways to kill a livestock pest. Forgive this analogy but I can't think of a more realistic alternative but let me swap four legged creatures for ourselves. If for some reason you had to be killed today for whatever reason without prior knowledge it was going to happen - would you (or your loved one's) rather it had been a swift end by a bullet we don't see or hear coming - or maybe 30 young fit agile baying men chase you a few miles till you are exhausted then rip you apart while still alive and able to feel it taking place? As for fishing there is a fair degree of cruelty and slow death while fighting for life there too, and I've also done my share of it. Sorry mate but youve fallen for the being ripped apart emotional stuff. Usually a broken neck from a good shake by first hound to get hold On 22/11/2024 at 19:42, mellors said: Well nobody else puts them out whilst THEY draw the coverts in front. THEY definitely don't follow the scented rag. Written as though you may be one of THEM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scully Posted December 1 Report Share Posted December 1 19 hours ago, oldypigeonpopper said: Hello, Sounds like a great day, If you catch up with annoying bloke again, rules are no work talk on a shoot day!!!!!! 👍 Unfortunately he’s in the syndicate! 😀 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave-G Posted December 1 Report Share Posted December 1 6 hours ago, spanj said: ... Sorry mate but youve fallen for the being ripped apart emotional stuff. Usually a broken neck from a good shake by first hound to get hold... ... and all the other dogs hold back and leave it alone right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 (edited) 8 hours ago, Dave-G said: ... and all the other dogs hold back and leave it alone right? He did say by the first hound before the others join in which would make the kill even quicker Edited December 2 by Rim Fire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12gauge82 Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 I'm sure the kill is usually very quick once the hounds have caught the fox. It's the potentially long and exhausting chase, or digging out that is inhumane, something that all the shooters I know do their very best to avoid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 On 29/11/2024 at 18:29, Dave-G said: I feel zero affinity with hounds and horses chasing an animal to exhaustion then killing it inhumanely after it was made illegal. IF the arrogant shenanigans weren't being done I suspect there would be less action about hunting in general. You coarse fish too, don't you? On 30/11/2024 at 11:32, London Best said: That is the standard response of people who have never seen how quickly a pack of hounds kills a fox. And when did hounds last wound a fox? Seconds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Penelope Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 On 30/11/2024 at 21:48, Scully said: Regarding antis and fieldsports, I think it’s less to do with animal welfare and more to do with anti establishment. The class system is still alive and well in this country, and the horse and hounds set along with all other fieldsports are regarded as the preserve of the elitist landed gentry and the privileged few, all regarded as the establishment. The BBC is part of this establishment also, whether it likes it or not, but its hypocrisy allows it to screen two blokes enjoying themselves by dragging fish out of its natural habitat via a hook through its mouth, even if it is catch and release. ‘Gone Fishing’ with Whitehouse and Mortimer are portrayed ( and indeed are ) as two normal working class blokes made good. It’s a good programme, enjoyable and relaxing to watch, but dress those two blokes in tweeds, put them in a ghillied boat ON the Tweed, and I doubt the feedback would be as favourable as it currently is. We now have reverse snobbery, which has its origins in wealth envy, and that’s all the ‘anti’ mantra is based upon. The irony is however, that if the antis usurped the establishment, what would that make them? Fox hunting is gone and it isn’t coming back; those involved have done themselves no favours at all, ( one reason being they couldn’t decide why they were doing it ) to the extent trail hunting is now also borderline acceptable. Lest game shooters think they’re safe, no one is fooled by the claim we’re in it for the sake of conservation. We create a suitable habitat for one reason, and one reason only. We need to be honest when asked, why we do it. Lest pigeon shooters think they’re safe , no one is fooled into thinking you’re providing an essential service to farmers. Everyone knows why you’re doing it. Some farmers want pigeons and crows shooting, but as I’ve mentioned elsewhere, I know a LOT of farmers, and many are simply indifferently tolerable of pest species. We all shoot for one reason and it’s the same reason. We’re in this together, whether we like it or not. Nail on the head there, Scully. I fish as well as shoot. 9 hours ago, Dave-G said: ... and all the other dogs hold back and leave it alone right? What does the fox, care? Well and truly dead by that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mellors Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 15 hours ago, spanj said: Sorry mate but youve fallen for the being ripped apart emotional stuff. Usually a broken neck from a good shake by first hound to get hold Written as though you may be one of THEM 😊. Nope THEY are very naughty. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rim Fire Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 2 hours ago, 12gauge82 said: I'm sure the kill is usually very quick once the hounds have caught the fox. It's the potentially long and exhausting chase, or digging out that is inhumane, something that all the shooters I know do their very best to avoid. Where is the difference between digging out a Fox to digging out a Rabbit or Rat or chasing Rabbits with dogs putting ferrets down an earth to bolt a Rabbit a Fox is just a bigger animal or beating a cover to flush game so guns can shoot at them Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TIGHTCHOKE Posted December 2 Report Share Posted December 2 13 minutes ago, Rim Fire said: Where is the difference between digging out a Fox to digging out a Rabbit or Rat or chasing Rabbits with dogs putting ferrets down an earth to bolt a Rabbit a Fox is just a bigger animal or beating a cover to flush game so guns can shoot at them I don't think there is much difference apart from the perceived "toffs" riding to hounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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