Why Would you Kill Things??

[Bagsy]

I am surprized by your question, but admire your honesty. I suspect some of the replies you'll receive may be a bit on the flaming side, but I will try to be a little more even handed.

 

Death, is part of life. Without it, life makes no sense. And although a lot of people are happy to live in double-glazed, centrally heated, Saturday trip to the super-market denial, whether you like it or not, you are an A one preditor, top of the food chain.

 

If you choose to remove yourself from a hands-on role in feeding yourself and your family, that's fine. But, please don't be critical of those you don't wish to do so. If you enjoy eating, or wearing what others are prepared to farm/hunt and then kill for you to buy, in a nice clean shop, while failing to consider or understand somebody else's enjoyment in taking part in the cycle of life and death, this is at the very least, uncharitable and verging on hypicritical.

 

If you are refering to somebody taking delight in pulling the legs off of insects and killing small animals for fun, with their Grandad's old air-rifle that they found in the attic, just because they can. Then you won't find many members on here disagreeing with you.

 

Regards....

 

 

Well put

[beatingisbest]

sorry everyone but got to go out for dinner with my mum!! I know, such a mummy's boy!!

 

we're off for a Chinese, maybe they'll have live lobster and I can pick one - does that count!?!?!

 

 

Think where the chicken from the chinese meal came from.

 

A little cage in a barn full of tens of thousands and when they reach 6 weeks old they are killed.

 

and you are unsure about shooting pigeons, rabbits or game for the table because some people think it is cruel?

 

:yp:

 

hmm

[dustyfox]

sorry everyone but got to go out for dinner with my mum!! I know, such a mummy's boy!!

 

we're off for a Chinese, maybe they'll have live lobster and I can pick one - does that count!?!?!

 

 

Think where the chicken from the chinese meal came from.

 

A little cage in a barn full of tens of thousands and when they reach 6 weeks old they are killed.

 

and you are unsure about shooting pigeons, rabbits or game for the table because some people think it is cruel?

 

:yp:

 

hmm

 

 

[lurcherboy]

OK, this topic is likely to generate a bit of interest, but bear with me.......... here goes...

 

I am an avid shooter, I shoot clays, at least 250 a week. Although I'm not great, I'm getting better!!

 

I am also a keen meat eater - love the stuff!! I know it's a dead animal, and am perfectly happy with the fact that it's been killed to sustain me.

 

My question is this......

 

Why do people shoot/kill the different quarries out there.

 

I understand killing things if you eat them, or for genuine pest contol reasons. (I guess if something is killed for both reasons then that's even better!!)

 

What I don't applaud is anybody killing something for fun. Are my views common throughout the members here, or am I going to get branded an 'anti'. I wonder..

 

I am also concerned with novices shooting live quarry. I class myself as an intemediate shooter (70 from 100 clays), and I regularly 'clip' clays. I'm sure we all do. I would certainly never target live quarry until I was a very experienced shooter.

 

Your comments would be appreciated.

 

Rhodes

 

 

Rhodes,

 

You are a far better clayshoot than me ( many on here will confirm that fact ) yet I shoot live quarry far better than clays.

 

We all wing/***** birds and although that is regrettable it is a fact of life and even the best shot can miss along with the rest of us poor shots.

 

Quick collection and despatch of the quarry is paramount in these cases although I think the practice of leaving game birds on a shoot until the end of the drive needs revising

 

 

 

LB

[henry d]

Why Would you Kill Things?? - basically because I`m hard wired to do it.

 

Even before I remembered anything I was hard wired to kill. First thing that I do remember about life/death and food is seeing my Granda(God bless his soul) gutting and jointing a rabbit the dog had caught and eating it for tea. Then(no not after tea) I was given a fishing rod and can remember the tussle to land a small trout, which again was prepared and eaten yet it was the battle, small as it was the exciting part and designed by nature to incite the killer instinct in me so that in the real world I had the ability to survive. After that I expanded to shooting airrifles and shotguns, beach fishing, salmon fishing, rifles, ferrets, dogs........ and at this time in life I don`t fish for salmon/sea trout as I believe they are in too much of a decline, I don`t shoot rooks on sight but will if asked, foxes and feral cats are another matter.

 

Again I`m hard wired to do it, but as I`m sure will happen as it has to many others I will either stop because time decrees it or that I have done enough of it(and saddle of hare in a chocolate and cream sauce doesn`t taste the same through a liquidiser !!).

[digger]

Personally I get satisfaction from killing an animal quickly which is far removed from the meat on sale in super markets. I am asked to control pests on a farm which I do, all posters on here would agree an instant death is what we strive for. We are not robotic auto guns that ensure clean kills every time the trigger is pullled but respect our chosen quarry enough to ensure there is far less suffering than in a slaughter house.

That said I think you are on a wind up. your last post was a tad patronising

[tosspot]

for what it's worth heres my two penneth

 

hands up who goes shooting thinking

 

a ) i am protecting all these crops for my mate the farmer, at expense to myself because i feel for him struggling to make a living watching his profits being eaten away

 

b ) today i would like to shoot a benchmark 100 birds because i would like to stock my freezer to the full

 

c )i keep chickens / fowl and want to protect them by shooting as many foxes as i can all over the county

 

 

answer

 

for me personally i do what i do because i enjoy it.

 

i despise waste and will utilise everything that is edible i am responsible for shooting, even if that means giving it to persons who will appreciate it

 

maybe its the hunter gatherer instinct instilled deep in the blood i dont know

 

all i do know is i will continue to do so all the while i can, because i can and i have no issues in the morality of doing so

 

if you do, then maybe stick to clays i will respect that as i would hope you would respect me and my choice

 

TP

[chunk]

I enjoy shooting and being out in the great outdoors. If i dont "bag" anything the day is not a disappointment as i`ve just enjoyed the solitude. I generally eat what i shoot or give it away. I fish too and put back the majority of what i catch.

Although i am not interested in game shooting i consider it a cash crop. Birds are put down and harvested at a later date. The only difference between pheasants and other livestock is the manner of their death. Pigs, sheep, cows are a cash crop which are brought on then harvested.

[Chard]

I think some people have spent so long trying to justify what they do to the antis, that they've started to believe their own tripe.

 

I don't waste fish that I kill, but there's a world of difference between :

 

1) Fishing/shooting for the pot/to feed the family/to control vermin

2) Fishing/shooting for sport and taking a couple of fish/birds as a tasty by-product of the session.

 

I'm definitely in the 2) camp.

 

I'm afraid I just don't believe that there are many here in the 1) camp, unless they are farmers controlling vermin on their own land.

 

Most of us either shoot or fish for sport. Controlling vermin is a useful by-product of it and getting some birds or fish for the table is another useful by-product. As for those things being the main reason why we do it - sorry, I don't believe a word of it.

 

The amount of money we pay out in a year to continue shooting, or indeed, fishing, means that it is highly unlikely that any of us are doing it for these reasons. It's sport.

 

Instead of trying to convince the antis that we all have oh-so-noble reasons for doing this, we should focus on more believable benefits of our sports. For instance, conservation of habitat. It is a fact that, if conservation of the countryside, hedgerows, woodland, rivers etc, were left to antis, twitchers and other assorted riff-raff, it would be a poorer place. Field sports organisations do far more to conserve the British countryside than all these motley crowd of refugees put together. I think we would be more likely to win support by focusing our argument on that aspect, than by trying to convince people who will not be convinced, that we are controlling vermin and "just doing it for the pot". We need to remember that people who are not farmers or field sportsmen do not regard Charlie fox as vermin, and they never will. Fluffy bunnies and sodding squirrels will not be regarded as vermin by many, except a few of the better-informed, so we're wasting our breath preaching about vermin control.

 

I think that the foxhunting battle was lost, because the best argument they could come up with was pest control. If 99% of the population don't regard foxes as vermin, that was a waste of time. They would have been better off emphasising the conservation of habitat argument, because everybody, except a few chavs and property developers can relate to the need to conserve the wild places.

 

[LEFTY478]

I'm definitely too camp.

 

 

I agree with Chard, he is.

[dustyfox]

I think some people have spent so long trying to justify what they do to the antis, that they've started to believe their own tripe.

 

I don't waste fish that I kill, but there's a world of difference between :

 

1) Fishing/shooting for the pot/to feed the family/to control vermin

2) Fishing/shooting for sport and taking a couple of fish/birds as a tasty by-product of the session.

 

I'm definitely in the 2) camp.

 

I'm afraid I just don't believe that there are many here in the 1) camp, unless they are farmers controlling vermin on their own land.

 

Most of us either shoot or fish for sport. Controlling vermin is a useful by-product of it and getting some birds or fish for the table is another useful by-product. As for those things being the main reason why we do it - sorry, I don't believe a word of it.

 

The amount of money we pay out in a year to continue shooting, or indeed, fishing, means that it is highly unlikely that any of us are doing it for these reasons. It's sport.

 

Instead of trying to convince the antis that we all have oh-so-noble reasons for doing this, we should focus on more believable benefits of our sports. For instance, conservation of habitat. It is a fact that, if conservation of the countryside, hedgerows, woodland, rivers etc, were left to antis, twitchers and other assorted riff-raff, it would be a poorer place. Field sports organisations do far more to conserve the British countryside than all these motley crowd of refugees put together. I think we would be more likely to win support by focusing our argument on that aspect, than by trying to convince people who will not be convinced, that we are controlling vermin and "just doing it for the pot". We need to remember that people who are not farmers or field sportsmen do not regard Charlie fox as vermin, and they never will. Fluffy bunnies and sodding squirrels will not be regarded as vermin by many, except a few of the better-informed, so we're wasting our breath preaching about vermin control.

 

I think that the foxhunting battle was lost, because the best argument they could come up with was pest control. If 99% of the population don't regard foxes as vermin, that was a waste of time. They would have been better off emphasising the conservation of habitat argument, because everybody, except a few chavs and property developers can relate to the need to conserve the wild places.

 

:yp:

 

[rhodes]

I value all your responses.

 

The reason I ask is because I WANT to shoot live quarry, for the pot, for pest control, and because I know I would enjoy it.

 

However, as a town dwelling soul who's meat has always been skinned by removing the plastic packaging, I feel I need a reason to shoot. That's what I was looking for from my post.

 

Hope this makes sense.

[Chard]

I'm definitely too camp.

 

 

I agree with Chard, he is.

 

 

How very dare you :o

 

I only bat for the other side to feed my family :lol:

[vole]

Hi Rhodes.Theres alot to be said for not being overly analytical.If you need to do all this soul searching then it might not be for you.I guess though if you enjoy this forum and you want to try shooting live quarry then have a day with someone with experience and take it from there?Regards.

[pavman]

Interesting responses, I'm enjoying the discussion/feedback.

 

And only the one or two paranoid 'attacks'. A credit to the majority of you.

 

You have a PM

[Piebob]

There's an interesting article in this week's Shooting Times which pretty much sums up a lot of my thoughts. I shoot, primarily, for fun. Some on here shoot primarily for pest control or for the pot - although I personally happen to believe the "for the pot" argument to be particularly thin. Will they starve coz' they can't shoot?

 

Sure, the things I shoot get eaten either directly by myself or friends, or sold at game dealers / butchers etc. but that is not the prime reason for me. Sure, I'm performing a bit of pest control for farmers - but, again, for me not the prime reason.

 

So, I shoot for fun. Does that mean to say that I kill for fun? Well no - there are plenty of easier and cheaper ways of killing animals for fun. Hence, it must be the actual act of going shooting live quarry (rather than the act of killing) that is the draw - out in different countryside, with friends and different characters, with dogs, with wildlife, with the formalities/informalities, whether on your own decoying, on a walked-up rough shoot or on a driven game shoot the list can go on and on.

 

I justified shooting live quarry to myself a long, long time ago after going through what sounds like a very similar thought process to Rhodes - we probably all have but just haven't formalised it.

 

For me, as long as whatever I shoot is despatched as efficiently as possible, is eaten or sold to be eaten, and is sustainable then I feel justified in shooting it. Antis will rarely understand this, as the act of killing in itself is the bit they can not bear - it matters not if it's one rabbit / bird or 100.

[Blackbart]

I value all your responses.

 

The reason I ask is because I WANT to shoot live quarry, for the pot, for pest control, and because I know I would enjoy it.

 

However, as a town dwelling soul who's meat has always been skinned by removing the plastic packaging, I feel I need a reason to shoot. That's what I was looking for from my post.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

"THE REASON I ASK IS I WANT TO SHOOT LIVE QUARRY"....mmm me thinks not!!

 

Your profile interests states clay shooting only..."I DONT LIKE KILLING THINGS"

 

So either you have had a severe change of heart(in very very short space of time)or the reason for your post is mischief making!

[pavman]

I value all your responses.

 

The reason I ask is because I WANT to shoot live quarry, for the pot, for pest control, and because I know I would enjoy it.

 

However, as a town dwelling soul who's meat has always been skinned by removing the plastic packaging, I feel I need a reason to shoot. That's what I was looking for from my post.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

"THE REASON I ASK IS I WANT TO SHOOT LIVE QUARRY"....mmm me thinks not!!

 

Your profile interests states clay shooting only..."I DONT LIKE KILLING THINGS"

 

So either you have had a severe change of heart(in very very short space of time)or the reason for your post is mischief making!

 

[rhodes]

I value all your responses.

 

The reason I ask is because I WANT to shoot live quarry, for the pot, for pest control, and because I know I would enjoy it.

 

However, as a town dwelling soul who's meat has always been skinned by removing the plastic packaging, I feel I need a reason to shoot. That's what I was looking for from my post.

 

Hope this makes sense.

 

"THE REASON I ASK IS I WANT TO SHOOT LIVE QUARRY"....mmm me thinks not!!

 

Your profile interests states clay shooting only..."I DONT LIKE KILLING THINGS"

 

So either you have had a severe change of heart(in very very short space of time)or the reason for your post is mischief making!

 

Ok, let's re-phrase that - I WANT TO BE COMFORTABLE WITH SHOOTING LIVE QUARRY!!!

 

That's what this whole thread is about, me talking to others asking what their reason are for killing something. And yes, when I filled in my profile I hadn't spent the time gaining the views of those more experienced than me in order to be comfortable with it.

 

I'm learning here, a break would be nice.

[dazza]

If your going to eat what you kill whats the problem? When you buy meat in Tesco's etc it didn't die of old age somebody had to kill it.

[Oly]

Supply and demand - you buy meat, therefore you might as well have killed it yourself.

 

 

...and got a bit of nice fresh air, enjoyed the countryside, done the farmer a favour and taken up a decent sport too!

[Spaniel]

Hi

 

I have been fishing most of my life, started off sea fishing and coarse fishing,

When sea fishing i only keep what i am going to eat, so when Mackeral fishing in the summer i normaly keep about 6 to eat on the BBQ and the rest goes back, but i try to catch loads for the sport of it.

 

I then got into Clay shooting and i really enjoyed it, but still wanted more from the sport to be honest.

 

I got involved with Beating and enjoyed the chance to shoot pheasants on Beaters day.

 

Every Saturday I come away with a couple of brace of pheasant which I eat myself or i give to my neighbours to eat and enjoy..

 

I was then lucky to have a chance at some vermin control. i.e Pigeon and Crow shooting for a farmer.

I have not seen any large bags of pigeons but what i do shoot will go into the pot or the freezer, nothing is ever wasted.

 

Im a towny just like yourself...it is a strange feeling at first shooting at a live bird, regardless if you have paid to shoot at it as on a pheasant shooting trip or if you are shooting it for Vermin control.

 

I think you will have to think back to when you first caught and despatched your first fish and how you felt carrying that out...no doubt now you dont even think twice about doing this...well its going to be the same when you go out shooting.

 

At the age of 44 it was only last year that i dressed my first pheasant....not a nice experience first off, but now i take no notice what so ever...

 

When out pigeon shooting i enjoy, yes enjoy shooting the more sporting bird, coming over my head, rather then ones coming in onto the decoys but im doing the job for the farmer.

 

But im still getting use to despatching any which are not cleanly killed...not a nice feeling for a beginner, but i have a responsibility to despatch something i have shot at as quickly as possible...

 

By the way the different between the fish and the bird is that the bird is still warm....when killed, which is something else you may find hard to handle when you pick the birds up.....

 

What I would like to try next is rabbit shooting, have none where i shoot at present, but again i will have to get use to despatching any wounded game and skinning them for the pot...something else which for a beginner does not sound that good, but i want to give it a go....so if there is anyone out there who wont mind me tagging along with them

 

I think the best thing for you is to try to get yourself out with an experienced shooter and go from there, you may not even like shooting at live game, theres no problem with that, go clay shooting and fishing.

 

But I think the main part from my point is that i will not waste anything i shoot and it all gets eaten by me or by my friends etc.

 

I think these days to many people are use to going down to ASDA to buy their meat or wrapped up, and presented on the shelf.

What ever you eat, someone out there have to despatch it and prepare it ready for you to put on your table.It might not be the most pleasant thing to watch an animal being slaughtered but the majority of people still eat the meat .

I wanted to get away from this moden style of thought and go out and actually shoot what i was going to eat.

I make sure that my Kids know what they are eating..and not just look at it as a piece of meat on the shelf...

 

 

But at the end of the day you have todo what you feel comfortable with,

 

Good Luck

 

ian

[rhodes]

Ian (Spaniel)

 

what a great post, you have almost read my mind!!!

 

You have hit on all the things that would make me want to shoot, and all the things that would put me off.

 

Like you say, until I try then I'm never to know. Thanks!

[chunk]

First time i killed anything was a defining moment. I was 14 and went ferreting with a mate. He had shown me how to kill a rabbit, but to suddenly have a live one in my hands all wide eyed and full of life was a shock. My mate basically shouted to get a grip and kill it and re net the hole. I did so and cracked on. Had a think about it later and decided i was ok with it.

My eldest shoots clays with me but asked to come and shoot pigeon. After a few she decided she didnt like it, and would stick with clays. Dont have a problem with people who dont want to kill anything, prefering others to do it. What i do have a problem with is people who dont want to do it , but try impose their beliefs on those that do.

[Mungler]

Have you seen silence of the lambs?

 

I am making a giant "pigeon suit" to complete my transformation into...... a pigeon.

 

The problem is that I am a chunky monkey and I need a couple of thousand more pigeons to finish up.