Supporting the Hunts

[Devon Fox]

Will be out with my local after a morning walk around. The East Devon don't meet until 11 am. :o

 

Two of my mates wives rode in the E Dev hunt, hope you were werent looking at their butts .... phwooaarrr

[al4x]

you mean to say they are horsey women without huge *****, seems like riding round our way you have to have a bottom of comparable size to the horse

[Devon Fox]

There are some sweet chicks on horse back in my area,cant beat horsey chicks

[highseas]

any one follow enerdale&eskdale or cumbland farmers on here

[catroofel]

There are some sweet chicks on horse back in my area,cant beat horsey chicks

 

ah m8 now your talking can't beat horsey girls

my hunt the- chid lec are very good in every way don't know if any of you guys have had dealings

but inspite of constant anti trouble ( nearly every time they meet ) they still remain as dedicated

to keeping to legal guidelines as they possibly can "well done guys"

[anser2]

"On one occasion I found my local hunt terrier men digging out and killing badgers within the boundary of my nature reserve. "

 

The events over the badger were reported , but I was alone and there were half a dozen digging out the badgers sett and they took the dead badger away with them so it was my word against theirs and as half the local hunt are magistrates \ lawers \ landed gentry you can guess the result of any attempt at justice. They claimed a fox had run down the hole and the dogs had killed the badger by mistake.

 

My feeling about hunting is nuetral , its the attutide of a lot of the people who do it i cant stand. I know thats a pretty genral statement , but my local huntsmen seem to think they have a god given right to go where they like often over farms \ reserves where they have been asked to avoid. their attutiude was we have always hunted this land and we are not going to stop now. They did not even have the excuse of pest control as I know a couple of keepers from away who sold foxes to the terrier men who would let them go the day before a hunt to give the hunstmen their sport as foxes in the 1970s were scarce in my area.

 

I have a friend who told me that a deer hunt chased a stag through their village , cornered it in his aunts garden and shot it. If we did that we would lose our gun licences and be up before the bench.

 

In the lead up to the banning of live hunting shooting people of all walks of life supported the huntsmen , in the press and on the London march. Just how many huntsmen would stand up and travel the country to support shooting ( with the exception of those who do both hunt and shoot ). Very few i suspect. When the country and wildlife act ( when we lost a lot of quarry species such as curlew ) was passed in parliment I did not see many letters in the sporting press ( I cant remember any ) from huntsmen standing up for wildfowlers rights. Yet when hunting was threatened shooters from all over the country lent their support. We were all hoodwinked that shooting was going to be next so we had better support the huntsmen , I suspect in the public eye we did shooting a lot of damage in supporting hunting.

Edited January 8, 2008 by anser2

[badsworth]

I have a friend who told me that a deer hunt chased a stag through their village , cornered it in his aunts garden and shot it. If we did that we would lose our gun licences and be up before the bench.

 

 

Sorry - cannot agree. To a lot of people (including those against Hunting) shooting a cornered Stag is more humane than letting the hounds finish it. A stag is a very different quarry than a Fox. The hounds kill a Fox in seconds by breaking its neck (they might tear it to pieces after, but by then it is dead anyway) but a Stag is very resilient and suffers a great deal more. The only thing this hunt did wrong was to trespass, and in the circumstances they had a good reason - to minimise suffering.

 

That said equating Stag and Fox hunting is not easy - I favour shooting both but realise that hunting with dogs has a clear place in respect of foxes. It weeds out the sick and the weak and improves the overall resilience of the local fox population.

 

 

B

Edited January 9, 2008 by badsworth

[Ferret Master]

"On one occasion I found my local hunt terrier men digging out and killing badgers within the boundary of my nature reserve. "

 

I have a friend who told me that a deer hunt chased a stag through their village , cornered it in his aunts garden and shot it. If we did that we would lose our gun licences and be up before the bench.

 

 

 

That is stag hunting where the beast is 'brought to bay' then dispatched with a gun. It is how it works.

 

From my own personal experience of the hunt riding across my Grandmother's driveway to get to the woods and fields they have always popped a card through the door checking it is OK or phoned her and asked. Just my own personal experience.

 

FM

[Blackbart]

"On one occasion I found my local hunt terrier men digging out and killing badgers within the boundary of my nature reserve. "

 

The events over the badger were reported , but I was alone and there were half a dozen digging out the badgers sett and they took the dead badger away with them so it was my word against theirs and as half the local hunt are magistrates \ lawers \ landed gentry you can guess the result of any attempt at justice. They claimed a fox had run down the hole and the dogs had killed the badger by mistake.

 

My feeling about hunting is nuetral , its the attutide of a lot of the people who do it i cant stand. I know thats a pretty genral statement , but my local huntsmen seem to think they have a god given right to go where they like often over farms \ reserves where they have been asked to avoid. their attutiude was we have always hunted this land and we are not going to stop now. They did not even have the excuse of pest control as I know a couple of keepers from away who sold foxes to the terrier men who would let them go the day before a hunt to give the hunstmen their sport as foxes in the 1970s were scarce in my area.

 

I have a friend who told me that a deer hunt chased a stag through their village , cornered it in his aunts garden and shot it. If we did that we would lose our gun licences and be up before the bench.

 

In the lead up to the banning of live hunting shooting people of all walks of life supported the huntsmen , in the press and on the London march. Just how many huntsmen would stand up and travel the country to support shooting ( with the exception of those who do both hunt and shoot ). Very few i suspect. When the country and wildlife act ( when we lost a lot of quarry species such as curlew ) was passed in parliment I did not see many letters in the sporting press ( I cant remember any ) from huntsmen standing up for wildfowlers rights. Yet when hunting was threatened shooters from all over the country lent their support. We were all hoodwinked that shooting was going to be next so we had better support the huntsmen , I suspect in the public eye we did shooting a lot of damage in supporting hunting.

 

 

As an ex terrierman from a hunt i find your comments familiar,i used to hear them from the dreadlocked scruffy bunny huggers the lacs used to pay to come and disrupt our hunt,not that i am saying you are one of them but it does sound like a typical lacs statement...terriermen digging badgers,fox in a box trick,all magistrates etc etc heard it all before and it was a normal anti tactic to try and discredit the hunt by making up alsorts of things.........TALLY HO

[Cranfield]

Most of the hunting supporters (on horse and on foot) that I know, also shoot and fish.

 

They have all been so active in trying to defend their sport, I believe that they would also be very active in defending other country sports, especially those they participated in.

However, thats just my opinion.

[anser2]

was a normal anti tactic to try and discredit the hunt by making up alsorts of things.........TALLY HO

 

 

I am not saying all hunts are like this , but i can assure you that mine are. If you wish me to get statements from witnesses I can ( it will take a little time as the events took place several years ago). All I can say is that i have been a countryman since childhood , growing up in the Broads where I fished and shot along with my school mates. On occasion we even went to watch the Wavenly Harriers. I no longer live in the Broads and the events do not apply to the Wavenly harriers.

 

I have been a member of 3 wildfowling clubs , club officer in one club for 7 years and shoot 3\ 4 days a week in winter today at game \ wildfowl and pigeons. I am not anti hunting indeed i reconise that a hunted fox is dead or alive and never wounded , something us shooters cant always say. I work in conservation and have a very keen interest in all wildlife and in no account could i be considered an anti. Just repeating my personal experiances with my local hunts. Blackbart if you want me to name names and places contact me by email .

Edited January 8, 2008 by anser2

[salisburykeeper]

Just out of interest SK is the land owned by you or under any form of tenancy? as usually they ask rather than tell unless another arrangement has been made with the lands owner.

The problem with hunting in much of the Uk is that the land is unsuitable to it with too many roads houses and people. Normally they are pretty respectful for property but I have known exceptions where there have been problems, mostly with hounds chasing things they shouldn't. as for terrier men digging for badgers i'd be very very surprised they have to be so careful and what is in it for them there is unlikely to be a shortage of foxes to dig

no i own the land,thats why it annoyed me so much

[anser2]

Ferret master , I am well aware that is how stag hunting used to work , but from a public relationship point of view its a disaster for all field sports to chase the stag through a village and then shoot it in an old ladies garden. Better to have let it go and tried another day.

[starlight32]

Support the hunt- The anti's against hunting always have to have a campaign. Most of the anti's I have encountered that were chasing the hunt and are now pursueing us.

 

Support hunting full stop.

 

And give no quarter......

[Blackbart]

was a normal anti tactic to try and discredit the hunt by making up alsorts of things.........TALLY HO

 

 

I am not saying all hunts are like this , but i can assure you that mine are. If you wish me to get statements from witnesses I can ( it will take a little time as the events took place several years ago). All I can say is that i have been a countryman since childhood , growing up in the Broads where I fished and shot along with my school mates. On occasion we even went to watch the Wavenly Harriers. I no longer live in the Broads and the events do not apply to the Wavenly harriers.

 

I have been a member of 3 wildfowling clubs , club officer in one club for 7 years and shoot 3\ 4 days a week in winter today at game \ wildfowl and pigeons. I am not anti hunting indeed i reconise that a hunted fox is dead or alive and never wounded , something us shooters cant always say. I work in conservation and have a very keen interest in all wildlife and in no account could i be considered an anti. Just repeating my personal experiances with my local hunts. Blackbart if you want me to name names and places contact me by email .

 

I am not asking for statements or proof of events,i was merely commenting on the fact that all the things you said about hunting i have heard before and not just similar statements..IDENTICAL statements.The fact that you shoot doesnt always mean that you are not anti-hunt.The trouble with foxes and deer is they dont really care who owns the land or the fact it is a village,they are trying to lose the pack so anywhere does.I know at our hunt sometimes the hounds went where they shouldnt because it is very difficult to stop a pack when they are on the scent.If they are casting about speaking because they can smell charlie but cant pin down his trail you can call them to you,but if they are thundering through a copse,hedge etc in a more or less straight line in full cry there isnt a lot you can do to stop them,(Try calling a lurcher off a hare..you might be able to do it if you train it well..now try calling 40 lurchers off a hare)Being involved with the hunt i know what goes on behind the scenes Any damage done by horses or hounds is repaired by the hunt,surrounding farms to the land that was going to be hunted are informed that the hunt will be in the area,but sometimes you put up a nomadic fox that doesnt live on the territory and may just run the hounds in a straight line for 5 or 6 mile,right off the land you are hunting,in such cases the huntsman and maybe a whipper in will go with them cos you cant just let 40 hounds dissapear over the horizon can you?Someone watching may think they are hunting but infact they are just keeping in contact with the hounds.

Back to the first point,just because you shoot doesnt mean you arent anti-hunt.About fifteen year ago there was a small holding that the hounds regularly ran past,sometimes onto,the small holder hated the hunt and reported us to the police for tresspass.He kept chickens and the foxes knew his land well so would often try and lose the hounds there,he used to hurl abuse, rocks, sticks etc.Then one day he upped the anti and appeared with a shotgun and threatened to shoot a hound!The police were informed about this and we were informed that he was a sgc holder and it was debatable wether he did actually have the right to shoot a hound on his property.This wasnt some nut hillbilly,he was a doctor and just happened to hate foxhunting with a passion,anyway 3 weeks later he lost the plot altogether and shot 2 hounds and a RIDER.He killed both the hounds but fortunately the rider was only hit in the leg and his horse was wounded.He was charged with attempted murder and spent a long time in goal.

I think hunting and shooting can work together but too many people have this hang up about hunting being a thing which is carried out by the upper class and indeed that is the only reason hunting was banned and nothing to do with cruelty to animals or fox welfare.I think you also have this hang up but are trying to kid yourself you havent by saying you shoot so you arent anti-hunt.Its the people that are percieved to go foxhunting that got banned not foxhunting.

[anser2]

Blackbart you are just digging a deeper hole for hunting to slip into.

 

Quote “.I know at our hunt sometimes the hounds went where they shouldn’t because it is very difficult to stop a pack when they are on the scent. “

 

That is no excuse if you cant control your hounds then u should not be hunting with them. Its like saying to a farmer when a dog savages his sheep , sorry but I cant control it.

 

Quote “trouble with foxes and deer is they don’t really care who owns the landâ€

 

The same can be said for pigeons or other game but I do not go chasing them on land where I have no right to be.

 

Quote “I was merely commenting on the fact that all the things you said about hunting I have heard before and not just similar statements. IDENTICAL statementsâ€

 

Well perhaps god forbid in the case of hunting they might have a case if someone like me who is neutral has had similar experiances . I am not against hunting in anyway indeed as I have said it is the most humane way of killing foxes as they are never wounded , it’s the way some of the people involved in the sport that act that is more worrying to be associated with as a shooter. A lot of hunts still carry on hunting though they claim they kill their foxes by accident. Perhaps next time I go wildfowling I should kill a few curlew , but I doubt my plea of shooting them by accident would help me in court. The law of the land is the law of the land in a democratic society , but some in the hunting community appear to think they are above that law.

 

Quote “Any damage done by horses or hounds is repaired by the hunt “ That is true for the hunt supporters land , but in over 20 cases of them coming through my reserve they have never once offered to repair the damage , indeed in some cases it is impossible to return the rides to their original flora as the compression of the soil alters the water balance making it unsuitable.

 

 

 

Quote “Back to the first point, just because you shoot doesn’t mean you aren’t anti-hunt. About fifteen year ago there was a small holding that the hounds regularly ran past, sometimes onto, the small holder hated the hunt and reported us to the police for trespass. He kept chickens and the foxes knew his land well so would often try and lose the hounds there, he used to hurl abuse, rocks, sticks etc. Then one day he upped the anti and appeared with a shotgun and threatened to shoot a hound! The police were informed about this and we were informed that he was a sgc holder and it was debatable whether he did actually have the right to shoot a hound on his property. This wasn’t some nut hillbilly, he was a doctor and just happened to hate foxhunting with a passion, anyway 3 weeks later he lost the plot altogether and shot 2 hounds and a RIDER. He killed both the hounds but fortunately the rider was only hit in the leg and his horse was wounded. He was charged with attempted murder and spent a long time in goal. “

 

While I cannot condone what the Dr did , it was his land on which he was keeping chickens and despite one confrontation the huntsmen still went back onto his land a second time. Surely any reasonable people would have kept well away from his land and not risked provoking the Dr a second time. This just confirmed the attitude of some hunts who think they have the right to roam where ever they want to.

 

Quote “I think hunting and shooting can work together but too many people have this hang up about hunting being a thing which is carried out by the upper class.

 

The majority of hunt riders in my local hunts are middle class. You have to have a fair income to keep one let alone a couple of horses that most have. Money to rent grazing , buy food and the vets bills for a horse are horrific. And I come from a middle class family !!!

 

I suspect the real danger from hunting comes not from the antis , but the attitude of some of the people who do it. All the commints on this thread have done is confirm my suspisions that the form an alliance between other field sports and hunting will only damage field sports in the public eye and hasen the pressure to have all field sports banned.

[al4x]

anser I've come across the same issues, some hunts don't worry too much where they go and the riders that give the most grief usually are actually very much working class.

There is the fact we all need to fight against the abolition of fieldsports together but you still have a right to disagree with aspects that you don't agree with. My local hunt got banned from my local estate as they couldn't stop the fox hounds chasing deer all the time, its very hard to argue for the cause when you're talking to someone who has just had a muntjack killed by hounds in her garden.

[charlie 1]

Well our hunt go straight through the shoot i pick up on, and there wasn't a problem, the keeper and the hunt are on good terms and the hunt leave a bottle of whiskey for the keeper.

 

By the sounds of it there are a couple of hunts who arn't helping themselves. so would it not also benifit you guys to go and talk to the huntmaster and just ask him to stay of certain parts of your land, i'm sure they wouldn't have a problem with it as long as you are polite?

 

i think we do need to support hunting, it is a big part of the country and the less support it gets the more hunts that will close down. which means we could loose more of our country pusuits.

 

and There isn't much wrong with some of the gals that follow our hunt lol

[Blackbart]

Anser2

 

Which hunt is your local hunt ?,name and shame them if they are so bad.

 

I dont think i have dug a deeper hole for hunting(i have on the other hand dug lots of deep holes to get to a fox)I was merely giving you an account of the way i seen things happen from the inside of a hunt.If you seen the program on tv last night on ch4 about what really happens in the countryside,that is what i used to do,as well as the terrierman i used to go on the knacker run as we called it collecting fallen or unwanted stock,it was a good representation of what REALLY happens in the countryside.

Your responses to my points are the typical responses i would expext from an anti-hunt supporter...I give you an honest account of what hapens and you try and twist them to make out the hunt is always in the wrong,comparing a pack of hounds chasing a fox to a rogue dog killing a sheep is a prime example,

On the other hand i am glad you are showing your true colours,why dont you completely come out and tell us what you really think about hunting?is it the fox being torn to shreds you dont like?or is it the people you despise because as you say "they think they are above the law"or maybe you want to be able to do whatever you want cos it appears they can?

 

My personal opinion is you are a fox in sheeps clothing!

[njc110381]

"On one occasion I found my local hunt terrier men digging out and killing badgers within the boundary of my nature reserve. "

 

If this statement is true, I am sure you contacted the Police, the people involved were prosecuted and you can post a link to the relevant newspaper reports.

 

I don't think you will find there is any such thing as a "modern Hunt".

Its the same Hunts trying to conduct their affairs within the current laws.

 

The trespass you allege, can sometimes happen and is regretted, every attempt is made to keep hounds out of prohibited areas.

Likewise with damage caused.

Its fair to add that damage can be caused by all sorts of countryside users ( bird watchers and walkers can be the worse), not just Hunts.

 

 

My experience with the hunt also has a bit of negative feeling I'm afraid. I get the feeling I'm not going to be liked for this but my opinion is based on personal experience so I feel it's reasonable (although I'm sure not all hunts are like the ones I've seen, I can only base my opinions on experience)

 

The week I was in Devon the hunt charged through the woods we were stalking, after being asked by the landowner not to because of our stalk and game shoot. These things don't just happen, and "ever so sorry old chap" doesn't cut it with me. The second the huntsman was on his horn all the hounds were around us like a shot, so don't try telling me he couldn't control them. They rushed past us chasing a (completely knackered) Roe Deer several times, until both barrels of my shotgun not far away from them took their attention from the Deer and stopped them in their tracks. The Horses were close behind, and they were asked to leave. From what I can make out from talking to our host, the hunt do as they please. They screw up his rides and offer money to fix whatever damage they do, which to me is proof of a bunch of toffs trying to buy their way out of trouble. The people that are involved in it carry so much clout in the community that it really isn't wise to oppose them, which is why they get away with it.

 

The other experience I have of them is with the local wildlife trust (a different hunt to the above). They've cut the fences of our reserve several times to get through and show no respect for the countryside or the people who make their living on it.

 

I don't agree that money should buy you free reign of other peoples property whether invited or not, that's not the way sportsmen should be carrying on. I have nothing against hunting as a sport but the people involved with the hunt I've seen are total ******* with no respect for anyone

[anser2]

My responses are not from any anti feelings , but from practical experience in the field. I have no axe to grind as I already said over the hunting of foxes , only the attitude of some of the people who do it. All I have said was a response to outlaws original comments “ would I be supporting my local hunt

 

It is clear from a number of other posts from countrymen on here that my hunt experiences are not alone.

 

It appears Blackbart that you are quite happy with hunts going onto peoples land where they have no right to and are firmly entrenched in the opinion that the hunt should be allowed to do what they like in the countryside. I have an opinion based from my personal experience which you appear not to be able to accept , showing a mind just as closed as any anti. Holding an informed debate with such narrow views such as you have expressed on here is clearly a waste of time so I will not be posting any further comments about the matter as we have started to go round and round in circles.

 

If you want to know where and who was involved I have already given you a path to contact me. I would not name then on an open forum ( the last thing you would want is for the real anties to start digging ) any more than I would post the name of the clubs or estates I shoot over or the people I shoot with without their consent.

[Blackbart]

My responses are not from any anti feelings , but from practical experience in the field. I have no axe to grind as I already said over the hunting of foxes , only the attitude of some of the people who do it. All I have said was a response to outlaws original comments “ would I be supporting my local hunt

 

It is clear from a number of other posts from countrymen on here that my hunt experiences are not alone.

 

It appears Blackbart that you are quite happy with hunts going onto peoples land where they have no right to and are firmly entrenched in the opinion that the hunt should be allowed to do what they like in the countryside. I have an opinion based from my personal experience which you appear not to be able to accept , showing a mind just as closed as any anti. Holding an informed debate with such narrow views such as you have expressed on here is clearly a waste of time so I will not be posting any further comments about the matter as we have started to go round and round in circles.

 

If you want to know where and who was involved I have already given you a path to contact me. I would not name then on an open forum ( the last thing you would want is for the real anties to start digging ) any more than I would post the name of the clubs or estates I shoot over or the people I shoot with without their consent.

 

OK anser2 we will have to agree to disagree

But as i said earlier i think you are more anti the people that do it than the actual fox hunt and you have confirmed that in this post and that is the real reason foxhunting was banned.maybe i am bias because i used to work at a hunt but i too was speaking from experiance which you dont seem to accept either,and at no point did i say it was ok for the hunt to go on peoples land where they have no right,that is just your interpretation of me saying the hounds did sometimes go where they shouldnt which is a slightly warped interpretation.

Far from having narrow views on fieldsports i believe they should all be preserved and all have a place in the countryside and just because i dont like some of the people that do a certain sport i am not going to slag that sport off.

Our shoot has the hunt coming on saturday so we shall be shooting early and then moving onto land that the hunt normaly hunt on to shoot the afternoon,thats what it should be like, a bit of give and take.

You are right on one thing we could go round and round arguing the toss and we will never agree,i support he hunt and you dont so we will just leave it at that.

[digger]

Anser, you have made a very bold statement by saying you saw terrier men kill a badger. Do you have proof they were from a hunt ? After all you made the accusation on a public forum, read by who knows. Any wonder that huntsmen wont / dont support us when such a claim is made ? Well done for providing the antis with ammunition, you saw it and it was terrier men from your (then) local hunt, cast in stone because you posted that on here.

I dont doubt you are a countryman, I do doubt your reasons for posting unproven accusations. Hidden agenda or the Ken Livingstone approach, after all what on earth has being able to afford the upkeep of a horse got to do with it ?

PM me the details of the hunt allegedly involved and I will investigate, if I am wrong I will apologise on here.

[5matu]

of course ive only missed one hunt since xmas

[Sprinter]

Do i support the hunts? hmm :unsure: toughie?

 

In general yes to the extent that the only good fox is a dead fox and they do a job and have a place in the countryside. Do i actively follow them around the countryside blocking the roads and churning up the grass verges/ tracks - no.

 

The only other problem i have is that they don't seem to stay where they have permission to hunt. On more than one occasion i have had a good cover crop almost totalled by a mixture of hounds, horses and quad bikes in full flight.

 

So to summarise, if they stay where they are supposed to, kill foxes and park responsibly then i am all for it. If they behave irresponsibly then fail to accidentally kill a fox then my feelings differ.