protest at fox hunt ban

[dazza]

Protests as fox-hunt ban debated

 

 

Thousands of protesters are gathering in Parliament Square

Thousands of pro-hunters are protesting outside Parliament as MPs debate banning hunting with dogs in England and Wales.

Police estimate there are between 8,000 and 10,000 protesters but the organisers put it at 20,000.

 

If MPs back a ban, the Bill is due to pass through all of its House of Commons stages on Wednesday.

 

The little-used Parliament Act will be used to override peers opposition to a ban, which could be deferred to 2006.

 

Hare coursing would be banned three months after the Bill is passed.

 

 

POSSIBLE TIMETABLE

15 Sept 2004: MPs vote

Oct: Lords debate

Nov: Bill forced through using Parliament Act

Feb 2005: Hare coursing ban

Autumn 2006: Fox hunting banned

All dates assume Commons votes in favour of ban and Lords votes against

 

Pro-hunt supporters began gathering early on Wednesday for a mass protest organised by the Countryside Alliance outside Parliament.

 

Scotland Yard arrested two women at 0600 BST on suspicion of obstructing the highway after nine vehicles, believed to be horse boxes, were abandoned in Parliament Square.

 

Hundreds of police, including a number in riot gear, are on duty to stop protesters spilling out of the square. There have been scuffles between police and some protesters, with some missiles thrown.

 

Many of the protesters were wearing T-shirts picturing Tony Blair with devil horns and "I'll keep hunting" slogans.

 

'Not the end'

 

James Edwards, 20, from Exmoor, told BBC News Online: "We are trying to get through to the MPs not to let their personal feelings get in the way of the real decisions they should be making.

 

"They should think about the long-term effects."

 

Warwickshire hunt follower Robert Pugh, 56, said the peaceful protest was aimed at preventing a ban but hunting would continue in any case.

 

 

The government has chosen the path of prejudice and spite - the reaction it unleashes will be entirely its own responsibility

 

Simon Hart

Countryside Alliance

 

 

Hunt groups ready for demo

 

"This might be a tough time for us but hunting will not finish," he said.

 

Ministers are proposing a motion to delay enforcement of any ban until the end of July or beginning of August 2006 after backbench pressure.

 

Even if it is backed by MPs, the two year delay cannot be forced through against Lords' wishes, which would leave the government with the choice of an immediate ban or no ban at all.

 

Ballot box protest

 

Rural Affairs Minister Alun Michael said it would be "perverse" for the Lords and hunting supporters to oppose a delay.

 

He told BBC News 24: "We want to give a bit of space for common sense for people to back off, to look at re-homing of the dogs they have at the moment for hunting purposes, to look at changing to drag hunting, to other business activities."

 

HAVE YOUR SAY

This is all about class warfare and very little to do with animal welfare

 

Richard, England

 

 

Send us your comments

 

And the prime minister's spokesman said Mr Blair believed that, after seven years trying to find a way to resolve the issue and find a middle way, he recognised that had not succeeded and it was time to live up to two manifesto commitments to give MPs a free vote on the issue.

 

Some critics say the delay is to avoid pro-hunt protests in the build-up to the election expected next spring.

 

The minister said the election gave opponents of a ban the chance to register their protest at the ballot box rather than on the streets.

 

 

Debate time

 

All the stages of the Hunting Bill are set to be debated by MPs in just one day - something which was challenged by the Conservatives.

 

MPs spent two-and-half hours debating the procedure, which is now going to votes before they start discussing the ban itself.

 

No date has been given for a Lords debate, but this is expected to take place in October.

 

HUNTING BAN DEBATE

Baroness Golding, All Party Parliamentary Middle Way Group answered your questions in a live interactive forum

 

 

A video recording of this forum will appear shortly

 

 

The pro-hunting Countryside Alliance says it makes no difference if there was a delay before the Bill's implementation and plans to mount a legal challenge if the ban is approved using the Parliament Act.

 

The chief executive of the League Against Cruel Sports, Douglas Batchelor, said that the return of the bill to the Commons was "the high point of our 80-year campaign",

 

He said he "simply cannot see any good reason" for a delay on implementation of a ban.

 

At prime minister's questions, Tory leader Michael Howard said Tony Blair was sending a message that hunting was his priority at a time when crime was up, taxes were rising and the MRSA superbug was a major problem in British hospitals.

 

Mr Blair did not mention hunting but said he was proud of Labour's record on crime, law and order, education and health.

[red_stag88]

 

Check out Sky news for some photos.

 

Where can I get one of those Shirts?

[dazza]

ACTIVISTS STORM COMMONS

 

A group of protesters have broken into the Commons chamber as MPs debate a ban on fox hunting.

 

 

Five pro-hunt campaigners breached security in the House of Commons and reached the front bench of the Government side before being stopped by security.

 

Outside protesters opposed to the plans to ban hunting have clashed with police as crowds converged on Westminster.

 

Police drew batons and exchanged blows with a section of the crowd outside the Houses of Parliament as tempers flared.

 

Thousands have been demonstrating as MPs move finally to ban fox-hunting.

 

Scuffles broke out on the south west corner of Parliament Square at 3.30pm.

The demonstration compere has pleaded for calm saying: "You are doing our cause harm. We have no problem with the police.

 

Simon Kenney, a professional huntsman from Durham, was bleeding from the head.

 

He said: "I was up at the front trying to make my point to a policeman, then he just hit me with his baton.

 

 

 

 

Police clash with protesters

 

 

 

"The police did not give any warning. I was pushed from behind into them and the next thing I knew, I was bleeding."

 

Caroline Graham, from Newbury, Berkshire, said: "The police just keep hitting people - they don't care whether they are men or women.

 

Ten minutes after the violence flared, vanloads of officers in riot gear were seen heading to the scene with shields and helmets.

 

A Scotland Yard spokesman said: "A small section of the crowd attempted to breach the police corden.

 

"Police officers came under fire from missiles thrown by protestors including barriers. Despite this the corden was maintained."

 

In an all-day debate, MPs will vote on a controversial Bill that will see fox-hunting and hare-coursing banned in England and Wales from late 2006.

 

The government has indicated that any resistance to the Bill when it goes before the Lords will be overruled with the use of the Parliament Act.

[red_stag88]

I see the bad moon ris-in.

I see trou-ble on the way

I see earth-quakes and light-nin'

I see bad times to-day

 

Don't go 'round to-night -

It's bound to take your life

There's a bad moon on the rise

 

I hear hurricanes a blowin'

I know the end is commin' soon

I fear rivers over flowing

I hear the voice of rage and ruin

 

Don't go 'round to-night -

It's bound to take your life

There's a bad moon on the rise

 

Hope you got your things together

Hope you are quite prepared to die

Looks like we'er in for nasty weather

One eye is taken for an eye

[dazza]

Prepared for peace, ready for war!

[Lurch]

We didn't start the fire?

They drew first blood?

 

Keep 'em coming.

[Fisherman Mike]

Mr Blair did not mention hunting but said he was proud of Labour's record on crime, law and order, education and health.

In that case the Guy is a Bigger ***** than he looks.

 

I think he should Consult George W. Bush he appears to be the one who runs the country.

[Siatek]

This leaves us at a VERY Intresting dilemna at the next elections.

Labour against hunting, so are the Lib Dem's

Conservatives, I'm not sure about- But I'll be dead before I se a conservative in power again.

So, who DO we vote for?

[Lurch]

UKIP!

 

But then I would say that

[B_GINNER]

Mr Blair did not mention hunting but said he was proud of Labour's record on crime, law and order, education and health.

In that case the Guy is a Bigger ***** than he looks.

FM, thats typical of the sort of **** he spews out all the time, worst thing is, i think he believes it !

[Lurch]

Mr Blair did not mention hunting but said he was proud of Labour's record on crime, law and order, education and health.

In that case the Guy is a Bigger ***** than he looks.

FM, thats typical of the sort of **** he spews out all the time, worst thing is, i think he believes it !

He does indeed.

That is what makes him so much more dangerous.

[red_stag88]

Pro-hunt protesters storm Commons

 

 

Protesters in the House of Commons

Parliament was suspended after five protesters burst into the Commons chamber while MPs debated whether to ban hunting with dogs.

Four of the men ran out from behind the speaker's chair. Another wrestled past a doorkeeper from a different entrance.

 

It came as thousands of pro-hunters continue to protest outside Parliament. There have been some scuffles but it has been a mostly peaceful rally.

 

MPs voted for a ban by 356 votes to 166 in the second reading of the Bill.

 

 

 

Does this mean its all over

[Lurch]

Nope.

First the Upper Chamber chuck it out again, then the Parliament Act.

Then the legal challenges start.

[Aled_cky]

noooooo.... this is the end to Hunting, soon Fishing, and the Hunting will have a knock on effect on farming.. the government have screwed stuff up this time.....

if only Plaid Cymru were in the whole of UK and were in power.. they would keep hunting and support it and farming.

Aled

[Guest Mr Pieman]

Just returned from London - what a disgrace. Us and them - I can tell you we aren't totally blameless in today's violence. The antis will brand us as savages and it has achieved ****** all

 

Fighting - either by intention or retalliaton will NOT alter or change the opinions of the polititians . The best result we can hope for is not for the lords to object, but for politicians to vote for an immediate ban. The Tony will have to decide wether to let it run - which he knows will cause serious damage to his election chances - or drop it all together. Somehow, I don't think he will push for an immediate ban. He needs the two years grace to get him past the next General Election.

 

We are in deep ****e now, we can carry on illegally if it goes through, or hope the elected members see sense

 

Regards

 

PP

[Aled_cky]

ah ok, nice to see you back PP...

yeah we could all carry on illegally... like people still bury animals on farms.. the government dont notice and the pits are by the roadside with most people.

Aled

[jimdfish]

Just got back from London, started on the lash on the train and was a bit squiffy by the time we reached parliament square. Looking for a pub and went into one of these posh London jobs. All leather couches, no music, you know the sort. Asked the landlord for a drink and all these bouncers come out of nowhere and throw us out. Might have been my t-shirt, not obeying the dress code you know.

Jim

P.S Our Tony is fighting for his political life. He is balancing up, leadership of the party, against losing the vote to hunters. Unfortunately he has to ban hunting to appease the backbenchers and there are probably more anti-hunting than pro voters out there. Simple case of politics. To prove a point it may take 18 months to finally ban hunting witht hounds but three months to ban coursing. Why? Less people course than hunt, banning coursing makes more people happy than unhappy. Democracy is a wonderful, terrible thing.

[Yorkshire Pudding]

PP .

Glad you made it to voice your protest . I myself could not make it down to London , slightly busy looking after the countryside an all that .

As you said the pro hunt support was not totally blameless for the violence , but when backed into a hole there is only one thing to do and thats fight !

I see no other way to carry on now apart from civil disorder !

By the way i'm constructing yet another waste of time letter to my MP. Me thinks it will be a bit more scathing this time .

 

all the best yis yp

[velveteens]

Hi, being a countryman born and bred and being a gamekeeper for most of my life I think nobody has mentioned the **** that will follow. I honestley can,t see folk keeping a couple of hunters to follow a drag hunt. Having ridden to hounds many times it,s the"buzz" of goin hell for leather not the fox being killed that makes it what it is.I think there are thousands of hounds in the uk and as they are pack animals there is not much hope for their future.The breeding of foxhounds is an art in itself and I doubt if any of our bloodlines can match up to theirs.Not counting grooms,kennel staff, huntsmen, whippers in, vets,farriers,corn merchants and scores of others(most of whom live in tied cottages) are in a bad shift. If you want to find a **** in the country you should bring one with you from the city.

[Hammergun]

Some ***** on the radio was saying that if hunting is made illegal, no extra police will be needed to enforce a ban as those previously engaged in managing the antis are to be freed up!

 

What a load of b*****s!

 

So are we to presume that the antis are going to say: "Well chaps, lets all go home now." Of course not, they will start on shooting and fishing.

[Teal]

Was away for the meet today, I will try and make the next one if it is in the next 2 weeks.

[lurcherboy]

Hi, being a countryman born and bred and being a gamekeeper for most of my life I think nobody has mentioned the **** that will follow. I honestley can,t see folk keeping a couple of hunters to follow a drag hunt. Having ridden to hounds many times it,s the"buzz" of goin hell for leather not the fox being killed that makes it what it is.I think there are thousands of hounds in the uk and as they are pack animals there is not much hope for their future.The breeding of foxhounds is an art in itself and I doubt if any of our bloodlines can match up to theirs.Not counting grooms,kennel staff, huntsmen, whippers in, vets,farriers,corn merchants and scores of others(most of whom live in tied cottages) are in a bad shift. If you want to find a **** in the country you should bring one with you from the city.

Says it all. Who is going to arrest, charge and prosecute us?

 

 

Carry on regardless, tell 'em I gave you permission.

 

 

LB Master of the universe

[Fisherman Mike]

I cant see the major Land Owners abiding by a total ban on Fox Hunting there is too much at stake on the big estates. And what about the knock on effect to National Hunt racing, are we to eventually see the demise of the Grand national and the Gold Cup.

 

Tony B(liar) is using this issue to score political goals and personally I think his days and that of his inept Government are numbered. Lets hope so.

 

Even if this ban is implemented by the Parliament act against the consent of the Lords it still has to be approved by The Monarch ultimately so protests should be directed outside Buckingham Palace. I must say although I didnt attend myself I am suprised at the poor turn out by the Hunting Fraternity which was a small proportion of those who actually support Fox Hunting nationally.

 

I think this issue will cause serious rural conflict not unlike the Agricultural "Swing" riots of the 1830's. As I have said before, in some respects a ban will acheive the effect of ridding us of this Government and we can vote in a Tory one and make a start on reversal by the same political process.

 

I dont think personally that the fight is lost The big boys have yet to play their cards.

 

FM.

[Teal]

This leaves us at a VERY Intresting dilemna at the next elections.

Labour against hunting, so are the Lib Dem's

Conservatives, I'm not sure about- But I'll be dead before I se a conservative in power again.

So, who DO we vote for?

You have to vote for the person in your consituency who supports hunting and who has the most likely chance of being elected. The conservatives have said they will overturn the ban on fox hunting at the earliest opportunity, they get my vote, they are the only "big" party left on our side, who could (needs a minor miracle?) beat labour in the election, another 4 years down the line and it will be much much harder maybe even impossible to reintroduce fox hunting.

[Fisherman Mike]

they get my vote, they are the only "big" party left on our side, who could (needs a minor miracle?) beat labour in the election,

I remember Teal. When Tony B(liars) party overturned a massive majority of Tory held seats.. so Miracles do happen.

 

I just hope that those vehement supporters of the Hunt dont just evaporate when the chips are down and do indeed stand up to be counted. Only through solidarity will they be able to succeed.

 

I have today written a letter to Princes Anne who lives just 3 miles from me at Gatcombe asking her to have a word with her mum and ask her not to consent to any such bill.

 

FM.