tresspassers

[roadkill]

correct tresspass is only a civil offence but if they were pinching then its a different story

[bob300w]

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think that tresspass is an arrestable offence. This means that you have no right to detain them. Maybe if you found them carrying armfulls of property that they had stolen that would be different. As an ordinary citizen you would have no rights to do anything other than hold a conversation with them. Put a hand on them and you could be held to have assaulted them.

 

I think you may be very lucky that they ran away. You could have been far more in the wrong then them. While carrying a firearm in this country cool heads are better than righteous indignation. If you had arrived in close proximity to them with firearms they could easily have claimed you threatened them with them. Threat is much more a matter of how the recipient of it feels rather than how you intended it so in fact you may well have threatened them since they felt threatened by your angry shouting and rushing at them armed to the teeth.

 

By the way - you are there to shoot rabbits not patrol like Dirty Harry. This isn't Bagdhad and you are not Blackwater Inc.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Ah - it's all been said as I now see on reading further. I think you are lucky to still have your rifle to be honest, however upright your intentions were.

yep, however, you've summed it up in one hit, the only thing that you omitted was the excellent advice from Winchester; KEEP YOUR GOB SHUT PHONE THE PLOD LET THEM DEAL WITH IT

[Bagsy]

The landowner, or an agent acting on their behalf, has a right to eject a trespasser using minimal force if necessary. I would be careful though where possible ring the Police, advise them of your intended actions and invite them to attend. With a few exceptions trespass is a civil not a criminal matter.

 

As already mentioned by some posters though I would not under any circumstances challenge or even approach anyone whilst armed, it really isn't worth it.

 

EDIT - didn't intend to quote Evilv.

Edited August 19, 2008 by Bagsy

[Evilv]

The landowner, or an agent acting on their behalf, has a right to eject a trespasser using minimal force if necessary. I would be careful though where possible ring the Police, advise them of your intended actions and invite them to attend. With a few exceptions trespass is a civil not a criminal matter.

 

As already mentioned by some posters though I would not under any circumstances challenge or even approach anyone whilst armed, it really isn't worth it.

 

You are probably quite right about landowners and agents rights. I'm sure you are in fact, BUT I'd be wary of how a court might interpret my attempts to eject with minimal force and their judgments about WHO these rights of ejection are aimed at.

 

Take a landowner's right to eject travelers illegally camping (trespassing) on farm land. Probably a court would take it as correct that a landowner could hire a security company to eject them if they refused point blank to cooperate, that might mean laying hands on them and escorting them away to the boundary. However, I'd bet money that if a farmworker or a gamekeeper were to lay hand on me because I had missed a footpath and refused to go back, but instead offered to go by a non-damaging alternative route, he'd be guilty of assault. Likewise if some youth came on a golf course at night to scratch an itch with his girl in the dark and declined to cooperate with a man in cammo and was manhandled, I expect the agent of the landowner might well have a big problem satisfying the court he was right to get up close and personal. A ***** encampment is a different matter and even these have to be handled very carefully.

 

 

EDIT:

 

Ah - you didn't intend to quote me and now I have replied as if you did...

 

No worries Bagsy. It's a terrible wet day and I can't go out shooting up here in the northern wildlands. Maybe I'll go and buy some more HMR ammo instead of ratcheting on here.

 

 

Edited August 19, 2008 by Evilv

[bob300w]

The landowner, or an agent acting on their behalf, has a right to eject a trespasser using minimal force if necessary. I would be careful though where possible ring the Police, advise them of your intended actions and invite them to attend. With a few exceptions trespass is a civil not a criminal matter.

 

As already mentioned by some posters though I would not under any circumstances challenge or even approach anyone whilst armed, it really isn't worth it.

 

EDIT - didn't intend to quote Evilv.

I agree, but even without a gun, there were two people trespassing in the original post, it's going to be your word against theirs when it comes to deciding whether you used minimal force or "attacked us both so severly that I was traumatised and could not work for a month".

You also have the problem of their status as trespassers, I was under the impression that trespass was only an offence if you were causing damage, two people walking on a golf course could legally be seen to be just that, two people walking on a golf course.

They could have even been members of the golf club, and if two cammo'ed six footers with guns chased me, I think that I would do a runner also, even if I owned the course!

[Bagsy]

Evilv, agreed. Whatever course of action is taken it should be very carefully considered and the persons doing so need to have done their homework beforehand and should be sure they are acting within the law.

[Bagsy]

Ah - you didn't intend to quote me and now I have replied as if you did...

 

Sorry for the confusion caused.

 

Bob, I was talking generally about trespass once we are certain it is being committed, you are right as we need to be sure that is actually case beforehand. I should have made it clear it was a statement rather than advice for this particular incident.

 

In most cases people find themselves trespassing quite innocently (having strayed off a footpath for example) and simply bringing this to their attention and asking them to leave will in 99% of cases be more than sufficient.

 

Please don't take this as advice to remove all trespassers using force, I was merely pointing out the right to do so where this is absolutely necessary

[cubix]

I'm pretty sure that on most open land in E+W the offence of 'tresspass' does not really exist, or is at least hard to prove. Right to Roam legislation makes it redundant. In scotland there is no such thing - you can walk more or less anywhere.

 

It's a personal grievance you need to take up as a private citizen/company yourself via the courts.

 

There are of course the criminal offences of aggravated trespass, armed trespass etc. the police will do something about those. Simply shouting abuse at a land owner can count as aggravated trespass.

 

But you can't simply physically eject people walking across a field because they are there - they need to be causing some harm or damage, or disrupting a legal activity. Otherwise it's assault.

 

Even with ****** (sic) you need a court order.

[Bagsy]

The link below takes you to a document produced by the Countryside Alliance. Whilst aimed at hunt saboteurs it provides some very good advice for dealing with trespassers (see page 9), hope it helps.

 

http://www.heythrophunt.com/picts/huntinghandbook.pdf

[Fleabag]

one of my permissions is a golf club owned by a good mate of mine, i had a phone call last week to say someone had nicked 5ooo ( yes 5 thousand ) golf balls off the practice range --and would i keep a look out at night for tresspassers.

anyway , myself and my mate went for a walk on the course last night at just after 8-30pm, i logged on with my local police station as being out shooting and started to walk round, at 9-2o we spotted two teenagers walking along the golf course , i began to shout at them to stand still and stop , true to form the little ******* started running ( so would you with 2 6-2" 15 stone cammo-ed fellas totting rifles chasing you, bellowing at you to stop !!) any way we gave chase for about 200 yards and lost them when they decided to go hell for leather straight through a hawthorn hedge to escape from us ( bet that hurt like hell !!!) ,

we had the problem that we were armed and could,nt follow them onto a main road, we rang the police immediatley and informed them as to what had happened, the lady on the phone was great -taking all the details-- but the last question shee asked was---- what would you have done with them if you has caught them ??if they had tried to fight you to get away---- especaily as you were armed !!!!!

i trully repleid that i did,nt know

WHAT WOULD YOU DO IN THIS SITUATION ?

shaun

We had a similar problem on our golf course in Cornwall with balls being nicked and people coming on to play golf with out permission after hours, We put up warning signs saying warning live rifle firing on all entrance points, combined with the amount of shooting there after, all the nonsense stopped.

[bob300w]

The link below takes you to a document produced by the Countryside Alliance. Whilst aimed at hunt saboteurs it provides some very good advice for dealing with trespassers (see page 9), hope it helps.

 

http://www.heythrophunt.com/picts/huntinghandbook.pdf

That's an interesting document Bagsy, and getting back to the original post on this thread, there appears to have been little point in calling the police, as it says;

"Trespass – a definition

The unauthorised entry onto land or property belonging to another person. Trespass is a civil not criminal offence; the police have no remit to intervene."

So it seems unlikely that they would have turned up if called. Had they been told that guns were involved, they probably would have arrived, and the outcome may well have been two revoked certificates.

[jerico]

Kick them in the golf balls!

[Bagsy]

The original post aside, being faced with a trespasser is something we as shooters could all potentially come up against, whether they are innocently lost or they have more sinister intent (someone anti shooting perhaps).

 

I think we should have some knowledge about what to do in such situations. Normally of course the action will be to retreat away. As hard as it may seem we are armed and have a responsibility to act appropriately.

 

Remember that we are accountable for whatever actions we take and may have to justify them while 'gripping the rails' in a court of law, right or wrong!

[Mattw]

If you were in Camo how did they see you?

 

I find i keep looising mine, and can't find it, but thats why its so good.

[winchester]

The way the police are looking at these situations all be it right or wrongly Quote :- If your one side of a hedge and you cannot see through it or over it , theres a person or persons the otherside of the hedge you have not seen or heard and you discharge a firearm away from the hedge at a pigeon from a hide,

YOU WILL BE ARESTED AND POSABLY CHARGED (remember the lady traineing her dog with a starting pistol on private land )

This comes from section 16a of the firearms act .

And then it will cost you a fortune to defend your self thats why i beleved as do many others BASC Insurance covers you

It dose not

[Highlander]

The simple act of trespass isn't an offence and the police will in all probability not attend, even if they do they're unlikely to be of much help. Aggrevated or armed trespass is another thing and you might (a BIG might) get some help from plod but don't hold your breath!

 

Shouting at people from a distance is probably not the right approach but you've every right to approach them and ask what they're doing on private land. If they've strayed from a footpath a simple re-direction might put them right but my biggest bugbear is dog walkers who let their dogs run riot but as soon as they see you approaching put the mut on a lead then claim ignorance when asked to keep dog under control. Pointing out to them that they (and said dog) are walking into a shooting area often warns them off BUT it should be done in an ever so polite manner not threatening.

 

Whether carrying firearms (or shotguns) at the time or not if you hold a certificate you're in danger of losing it IF you get into any sort of a barny anywhere anytime!