.303 smle #4 mkII savage

[deadeye]

i strung up a plastic gallon jub filled with sand at about 45 to 50 yards and used the old enfield to make it swing. what a fine old battle rifle! i am looking forward to doing some shooting on paper at further distances when i have the opportunity. its been beat up a fair amount but the bore is good and it works smooth as silk. i love that old rifle.

 

p.s. the old rifle is heavy but it feels good when you shoulder it and the recoil is very mild. i had never shot a .303 before and

i can see how a soldier could be trained to put alot of lead down range with this old rifle as the recoil is mild and the bolt stroke is

relatively short and can be operated quickly. the trigger pull is good for a service rifle. its no wonder that they are still being used

in many places in this world even today. i went online and read up on how the afghans used them against the russians as a long distance

weapon in that rugged country. you had primitve people thwarting one of the worlds greatest armies with a hundred year old rifle.

Edited April 10, 2009 by deadeye

[Ozzy Fudd]

i strung up a plastic gallon jub filled with sand at about 45 to 50 yards and used the old enfield to make it swing. what a fine old battle rifle! i am looking forward to doing some shooting on paper at further distances when i have the opportunity. its been beat up a fair amount but the bore is good and it works smooth as silk. i love that old rifle.

 

p.s. the old rifle is heavy but it feels good when you shoulder it and the recoil is very mild. i had never shot a .303 before and

i can see how a soldier could be trained to put alot of lead down range with this old rifle as the recoil is mild and the bolt stroke is

relatively short and can be operated quickly. the trigger pull is good for a service rifle. its no wonder that they are still being used

in many places in this world even today. i went online and read up on how the afghans used them against the russians as a long distance

weapon in that rugged country. you had primitve people thwarting one of the worlds greatest armies with a hundred year old rifle.

 

and its still happening by all accounts

 

id love to get an old smle, ive seen a few that have been turned into 12ga shotguns (bot action) but to get a proper one over here would be too much paperwork

[LeeinVA]

i am seriously looking at one..

[Cannon]

I fire one of these now and again. Super accurate piece of kit. Bolt is a cinch to operate and feels really good in the shoulder. One of the most solid .303 rifles I have ever fired. I like the positive mag release infront of the trigger. It feels really good, and the trigger pull is crisp. Would defo recommend one. Although I've given this rifle a fantastic review, my next purchase is going to be a Moisin Nagant carbine 7.62. It's a bit cheaper than ye olde SMLE

[Gemini]

and its still happening by all accounts

 

id love to get an old smle, ive seen a few that have been turned into 12ga shotguns (bot action) but to get a proper one over here would be too much paperwork

I think you mean .410, as the barrel on the Enfield is a little thin to bore out to .729

 

 

G.M.

[Ozzy Fudd]

I think you mean .410, as the barrel on the Enfield is a little thin to bore out to .729

 

 

G.M.

 

nope, it was a bad choice of words, should say theyve had a larger barrel fitted to be a 12ga. there was a savage bolt action shotgun in the gun shop the other night

[Dougy]

just a bit of usless info.

 

My grandad "Pop" used one in the 1st WW he was a sniper, started in the Sherwood Foresters then got picked as a rifle man till the end of his service. also shot at Bisley.

I can remember him telling me about there accuracy, and that was "In the olden days"

Edited April 10, 2009 by Dougy

[Imperfection]

Have always admired the old SMLE and would love one for use at the local rifle range.How difficult/easy is it to get FAC and .303 just purely for target shooting? Also,being an old calibre-how expensive is the ammuntion?

[Steel100]

Imperfection,

 

If you are interested in SMLEs in particular or Lee-Enfield rifles in general, I thoroughly recommend that you approach these people:

 

www.leeenfieldrifleassociation.org.uk/

 

The url is pretty self explanatory! I'm not a member - I don't (head hung low) have a Lee Enfield; I just borrow one if I want to scratch that particular itch.

 

Some rifle clubs will be more welcoming than others - I'm generalising, but some of the precision rifle shooters may look down their noses at the older stuff. I strongly recommend that you try a club which you feel 'comfortable' with. Once you get in with the right crowd they will steer you towards your FAC upon completion of the mandatory probationary period.

 

If you choose not to reload .303 (equivalent to MkVII ball) is available from Privi Partisan, Sellior & Bellot and Kynoch/Kynamco - prices are all over the place but will probably be around £40 / hundred, upwards.

 

Andy

[shot shot]

back in ww1 there was an old trick that infantry used to do, they would hold the bolt with their forefinger and thumb, and use their middle finger to pull the trigger. apparently the german officers were getting reports of the british using automatic weapons

[sixgun symphony]

I own the No.1 MkIII SMLE and the No.4 Mk1 that comes with the spike bayonet. Both are good weapons in the hands of a marksman.

 

Military surplus ammunition from WWII used to be cheap and plentiful, I was shooting alot of it in the 1990's. But I suppose it's been all used up as one does not see it for sale anymore.

[Chris Bb]

At the age of 13 I learned to shoot using a No 4. Loved it!

 

Which is why:

 

i) kick from a 12 bore doesn't bother me one iota and

 

ii) I still aim rather than shoot instinctively.

 

and

[manc-munsters]

I shoot a III* most weekends.

 

Surplus ammo is still available occasionally, the last batch I bought was Greek and cost £145 a thousand (about this time last year). Surplus is almost always corrosive.

 

If your into reloading, you need a .311 bullet (same calibre as Russian 7.62x39) and good results are gained from 27 grains of 5744 powder with minimal recoil

 

Decent smellies are still more than capable of hitting accuratley out to 600 yds and can knock down fig11 targets at 900 yds with ease

 

I have yet to see a 12g version of an SMLE but have seen plenty of .410's. I cant see how a 303 action can be mated to a 12g barrel, but I am always willing to be shown!

 

303 is also an EXCELLENT deer round and is used extensively in the USA for hunting

[Imperfection]

Imperfection,

 

If you are interested in SMLEs in particular or Lee-Enfield rifles in general, I thoroughly recommend that you approach these people:

 

www.leeenfieldrifleassociation.org.uk/

 

The url is pretty self explanatory! I'm not a member - I don't (head hung low) have a Lee Enfield; I just borrow one if I want to scratch that particular itch.

 

Some rifle clubs will be more welcoming than others - I'm generalising, but some of the precision rifle shooters may look down their noses at the older stuff. I strongly recommend that you try a club which you feel 'comfortable' with. Once you get in with the right crowd they will steer you towards your FAC upon completion of the mandatory probationary period.

 

If you choose not to reload .303 (equivalent to MkVII ball) is available from Privi Partisan, Sellior & Bellot and Kynoch/Kynamco - prices are all over the place but will probably be around £40 / hundred, upwards.

 

Andy

 

 

ooops,missed your reply!

 

Thanks for the info.The local rifle range is ok for all calibres and i know people there already shoot Enfields there because i've seen a photo of someone holding one on the range.I just didnt know how difficult it might be to get .303 granted because i know its a serious calibre.I guess i need to go up there when they have their open days and have a good chat to the other peeps.

Thanks for the website link and info.

[Vince Green]

I have a 1917 SMLE that I bought about ten years ago. Don't get too much chance to use it these days but I will be down at Bisley with it on 23rd.

With good ammo they shoot well but most of the surplus stuff now is rubbish. I buy Sellier and Bellot or load my own. Don't run away with the idea these were super accurate rifles. They have their limitations.

[MC]

nope, it was a bad choice of words, should say theyve had a larger barrel fitted to be a 12ga. there was a savage bolt action shotgun in the gun shop the other night

 

You would have had to fit a larger action as well because there is no way you would get a 12G cartridge in an Enfield action. The bolt face would be wrong as well.

 

And the the larger barrel wouldn't fit within the woodwork.

[sandy22]

Savage does make bolt action 12 gauge shotguns, but they're nothing to do with the No. 4 Enfield.

[Harnser]

A brief history of the .303 british .

 

 

The 303 british has never been very popular in the U.S. but it one of the worlds most important small arms cartridges .It was Britains servicecartridge for nearly 70 years ,and it is doubtful that any other military cartridge has been used in so many hostile encounters as the 303 . It was adopted in 1888 . The original load was a 215 grain cupronickel jacketed bullet driven to a velocity of 1850 fps by a compressed charge of black powder . In 1892 the powder was changed to cordite , a double -base smokeless ,exrruded propellent in spaghetti - like lenghts about 2 inches long .

 

Case capacity and case shape of the .303 british cartridge are very similer to those of the 30-40 krag .The 303 ,however,takes a bullet of .311" diameter .

 

What the 30-40 was to the united states ,the 303 has been to the british commonwealth. The cartridge was very widely used in Africa ,particularly after the boer war when thousands of 303 short magazine Lee enfield rifles were sold to settlers along along with hundreds of thousands of rounds of full metal cased cartridges . The 303 cartridge has proberbly killed more game in Africa than any other cartridge ,and also wounded more . The 303 has also been very popular in Canada .The old 95 winchester was made in 303 British mainly for the Canadian market .

In my opinion you cannot call youself a rifleman untill you have shot a couple of hundred rounds through a 303 S.M.L.E.

 

Harnser .

[deadeye]

attn harnser

 

interesting post--thanks. i read some interesting info online about t.e. lawrence's (lawrence of arabia) SMLE. supposedly it is on display at the imperial war museum in london. the word is that there are 5 notches in the stock to account for 5 turks that lawrence dispatched with it during his campaign in the desert arab revolt during WWI. word is that the SMLE was a turkish war trophy obtained by some turkish big wig after the failed dardenailles campaign (gallipoli and the like). the old SMLE was from a defeated british outfit and the turk decorated the rifle with some gold to commemorate their victory. the turk big shot gave the rifle to an arab prince as a political gesture and the arab prince gave it to lawrence who used it to kill turks. some poetic justice.

 

QUESTION: in your experience what kind of groups with decent ammo should the SMLE deliver from a bench at 100 yds.--- not pie in the sky but average groupings from the average service rifle using decent FMJ military style ammo?

[Ozzy Fudd]

You would have had to fit a larger action as well because there is no way you would get a 12G cartridge in an Enfield action. The bolt face would be wrong as well.

 

And the the larger barrel wouldn't fit within the woodwork.

 

i dont know how they did it, all i know is that i saw two shotguns a few years back that looked like smle's (but like no4 jungle version, not full wood). anyway i asked the guy what they were and thats what i was told it was, this was before i got into shotguns myself so i did not know all the questions that i should have been asking him!

 

anywaaaaay.

 

what sort of money would a smle sting you for? and how easy are replacement parts, etc, to get?

[Harnser]

Deadeye ,

What you must take into concideration with the old S.M.L.E. is that they have all had a very lively life . If you want to buy one then it would be prudent to have somebody along to look the rifleover . Many of these old guns have had a very hard life and can only be described as old nails . Having said that a friend of mine bought an un-issued canadian S.M.L.E. a few years ago ,this gun was absolutely mint and cost him a lot of money . We took it down the range to see how it shot and we were surprised at how accurate it was . From the bags it was shooting m.o.a. at 100 yards . At 500 yards once zeroed with the battle sites it would knock down the military electronic targets every time , They are the half man size targets . We used an assortment of ammo from home loads to cheap ex military stuff . My friend still has the rifle and uses only home loads in it as he has developed a load that will shoot very well in the old gun .

 

Harnser .

[jcbruno]

got a few of these in the fammily beautiful rifles we have the following in dads collection

 

NO4 mk1 long branch Canadian 303 brit

MK3 Smle Lithgow Australian 303 brit

NO 4 mk 1 ishapore India 303 Brit

Mk3 smle England enfield 303 brit

no5 enfield England jungle carbine 303 brit

 

other closley related commonwealth related rifles at the old mans house

 

Ross rifle Canada 303 brit

BSA 22lr UK training rifle

BSA Martini 303 brit made in england marked Canadian Millitia

 

webley&scot made in England ww2 era 38 special

 

Jinglis Canadian contract browning hi power 9mm

 

as well we have some sweedish,German and swiss ww2 era rifles in the family to

[Horrocks]

They're still very popular out in New Zealand too, they cut down the stock to a sporter shape, same as out in africa, they're as cheap as chips too.

 

horrocks

[davhope]

There are still loads of 303 out here, seems to be they average about a 3in group at 100m some better,some worse, depends on how old and barrel condition, Most of the older ones seem to be pitted due to the corrosive ammo and not being cleaned properly, There are a few unfired ones that were imported in the original cosmoline and paper wrap as part of a cancelled irish army contract, that ended up on a website called trademe, sort of New Zealand ebay, they went for about 1300 dollarsNZ, Lots of people still use jungle carbines or Mk 5 for hunting over here.

Regards DH

[deadeye]

i had an old freind invite me to shoot his WW2 german mauser along with an american 1903 springfield. i brought my SMLE and we shot that as well. we had targets @ 50 and 100 yds. i came away with a alot of respect for all three rifles---they all three are excellent old service rifles. using iron sights and not having a proper solid bench (we used a card table and a folding chair out on his wooded land) i was not able to compare accuracy. in practical terms i would say that they are really quite similar in effectiveness. the ten round capacity of the old SMLE to me would be a great advantage in the heat of battle.

if i was going to take an action and make a custom sporting rifle i would choose the german mauser action---as has been done by top gunmakers over the years.