Laser

[Pigeon_decoyer]

:thumbs: I dont think they are that dangerous, I've shined them in my eyes plenty of times and my eye sight is still ok! Wel I wouldn't shine in my parrots eyes,

PD

[1 of 5]

So is it the case (as suggested earlier) that the lazer is only of use at night ?.

No. A good laser can be seen well beyond any shooting range in all but sahara like sunshine. A poor laser will only be seen at night though.

[apbuild]

Depends on the type of laser.

 

Info here:

 

www.gunshoprugby.co.uk

 

Click probucts. Click beamshot.

 

Rob.

[old rooster]

So is it the case (as suggested earlier) that the lazer is only of use at night ?.

No. A good laser can be seen well beyond any shooting range in all but sahara like sunshine. A poor laser will only be seen at night though.

Looks like we've got poor lasers then ;-). Thought they should be visible in daylight to be honest. Not convinced that I'm going to mess about with mine too much, it was just a freebie with the scope and I'm not sure that for the type of hunting I do it will be particularly useful. If set up as suggested it will be cumbersome and get caught in bushes etc.

[old rooster]

:thumbs: I dont think they are that dangerous, I've shined them in my eyes plenty of times and my eye sight is still ok! Wel I wouldn't shine in my parrots eyes,

PD

Hmmmm are you sure your eyes are still OK ??, didn't yours come with a warning label on it that say "Danger, laser radiation, avoid direct eye exposure" ?

 

You should be careful with these things, particularly if you get a powerful one.

[Sergeant]

I've just had a look on ebay, theres loads of these hong kong lasers for less than a fiver. Honestly, are they any good, and are they actually of any practical use, or am I better off finding out how to use the mil dots on my scope?

[1 of 5]

Save your fiver

[old rooster]

Save your fiver

Agreed, I'm not bothering to fit mine, just going to get used to the scope at different ranges.

[SNAKEBITE]

What is the postage because that is what usually kills.

[old rooster]

Mine came in a hinged polyprop box so at least I get a free fly box out of the deal.

 

You can have mine for a fiver but I'm keeping the box :thumbs:

[Pigeon_decoyer]

:thumbs: Yes dont but one! They are bright but they dont adjust unless my is just totally ******!

PD

[dunganick]

ive got one and its actually not that bad, it adjusts and its bright, build quality is useless but for £5 i think i can live with that

 

what more do you want for something that will shoot rats its whole life and get covered in cow poo

[SNAKEBITE]

Sorry to drag this one up again guys!!!

 

O.K. I now have a laser sight. It is a BSA one that cost 20 pounds (from John Kibble at the game fair)

I have put it on the rifle and adjusted it to line up with the vertical cross hair.

 

BUT DO I ZERO IT TO THE SAME RANGE THAT MY SCOPE IS ZEROED TO?

(my scope is zeroed to 35yds is that too far?)

 

I want it really to judge closer ranges. I seem to be o.k. on the long range shots but screw up on the close ones!! Any hints?

 

Thanks guys. (oh did I mention I saw George stevens from Air gun world at the game fair?)

Edited June 11, 2005 by SNAKEBITE

[dunganick]

if i were you i would, then you know......cross hair on laser.....hold on,

 

laser bellow target hold over

 

laser above target hold under

 

this is dependant on where you have the laser mounted, but this is th case with ontop of the scope as far as my little brain can work out right now

[SNAKEBITE]

Sounds good to me.

 

I'll measure out the distance and go from there.

 

 

IS 35YDS TOO FAR TO ZERO IN AT THOUGH? IT'S A .22

[dunganick]

run up a trojectory chart with chair gun, find out where the best zero point is to keep the pellet inside a 2inch cirlce, mine is about 25yards, cant recal exactly

[roblade]

dosnt matter what distance you zero the lazer/scope to as long as the lazer is on the x hair at your chosen distance.

 

though it does help to mount the lazer as high as possible above the scope as this will give a better ability to gauge the distance. (have heard that 6" is about the best hight to have it)

 

all you need to do now is set up targets every 5 yards and check where abouts the lazer hits the target in relation to the x hairs.

 

closer targets lazer will appear higher

 

further targets lazer will appear lower

 

(have i got that the right way round?? always get confused with this dosnt matter as it will become clear when you do the test yourself )

 

hope tis helps you out a little

 

ROB

[1 of 5]

Assuming you are putting the laser above the scope.

To get decent rangefinding with a laser you need to mount it well away from the sightline - the further the better to give a larger angle of coincidence. Try to avoid mounting it to the stock though as the action will move in the stock thus destroying any zero. As said the zero of the scope isn't always the best zero for the laser. Use Chairgun to see the best zero point, but a 2 inch circle is well OTT. A rabbits brain is well smaller than that and the whole of a pigeons head is smaller too. Keep the pellet within 0.5 inch of the laser from the point where the pellet drops 0.5 inch from the sightline after your scope zero point. If you have a mil-dot zoom scope you can then alter the zoom so that a mil-dot intersects the laser at the point where the pellet leaves the laser path so you'll know when you're out of range of the lasers dot. At closer distances than your zero it'll be a matter of knowing the relevant holdunder for the scope intersection of the laser.

If you want to use the laser as a point and aim for close shots you need the laser just above the barrel.

[dunganick]

my point for putting it on the cross hairs at the zero point is simple.......its the most simple way to use a laser....

 

if its under the cross hairs......you know to hold over,

 

if its smack on shoot the thing dead on

 

if its over then hold under

 

all of these other systems are great in theory but in practice durring an evening ratting they are far to complex to use effectively, plus i find the best use of the laser is to use it to shoot from the hip, it makes hitting rats a damned lot easier

[1 of 5]

A laser review I did a while ago

 

Using a Laser with an Airgun

 

Much has been written about lasers, a lot of it by folk who've not persevered enough with the system to fully understand it. I hope that this review will clarify some of the murky areas.

 

Laser type

You need a laser that has a good bright dot. To achieve brightness that means a tight dot at distance. The poorer lasers have a beam that diverges at distance and thus the available light is diffused over a larger area. As ALL lasers are limited by international agreements in terms of the power output you are not looking for a more powerful unit but a better-made unit. As well as of a good bright small dot you want a unit that is easy to mount (more of which later) and easy to aim in the required direction. Ignoring the cheap Asian units (these are simply awful with dot sizes of 2 inches or so at 10 yards) there are three main players in the airgun laser department:-

 

Crosman

Claim to be the world’s most powerful etc etc... As I said they are all the same power. The Crosman unit is one of the worst for dot size so leave them alone.

 

Beamshot

Make a range of different models and prices. They are similar looking to the Crosman but much better in terms of dot size. As a rule, the more you pay the better they are. Like the Crosman unit they have a simply awful zeroing system so unless you enjoy hours of frustration attempting to zero the thing you'd do well to leave these too. If money is tight then the basic Beamshot will do but be prepared for the zeroing problems and bright sunlight will prevent you seeing the dot!

 

Corsak

By far the best of the bunch for both dot size / brightness and a zeroing system that makes the other two obsolete. There are two types of zeroing systems on offer from Corsak and both are easy to use when compared with the competition. This unit has a dovetail for mounting. These are available at £68 from Soviet Bazaar and are far and away the best bet unless you've got £500 for a green laser! (I'll ignore the mega expensive units for this review.)

 

Where to mount it

Now the bad news. There are no commercially available mounts that I consider to be worth a monkeys! Why? Well to be of most use to an airgunner the laser should ideally be mounted at least 4 inches above the scope. There are differences of opinion here as to what's the best height but the experts’ opinions all fall somewhere between 4 and 7 inches. See my home brewed mount as to how to construct one. A pair of high mounts and some M10 threaded bar are all you need.

 

 

Why so high? If you get one of the pellet trajectory programs such as Ian Pellant’s Airgun 7.5 or Chairgun (they are free to download so you have no excuse) you will see that by putting the laser up high and with careful choosing of the zero for the laser (not necessarily the zero of the scope) you can create an additional tangent to the pellet’s flight-path. In other words as your pellet falls away from your crosshairs beyond your chosen zero the laser can pick up the flight-path for another 20 yards or so (dependant upon many factors) giving you an aim-point accurate to half an inch or less if required out beyond 55 yards in .177 or approx 45 yards in .22 at 12 ft/lbs. It is useful to have a multi-aim-point reticle so you can dab the laser on the target to see where the dot intersects the reticle, then use that part of the reticle to aim at the target. A zoom scope is useful too. At some point the pellet is going to arc away from the laser beam (around 58 yards for my set-up) so I set the scope magnification so that the laser coincides with a certain point on the reticle at 55 yds - this then tells me when I am out of range as the laser will appear below this mark to indicate this.

 

If you want to mount your laser elsewhere (under the barrel for instance) you need to create the maximum distance from the scope centreline to the laser centreline as with a laser below the scope you are going to use the laser as a rangefinder rather than an aim-point. This is because with a laser lower than the scope the dot is going to appear above the crosshairs at distances above the zero. You should zero the laser at the scopes zero and then spend time on the range working out what the different divergences of crosshair-to-laser mean in terms of pellet drop to work out your holdovers. As you can see this system is of less use but does have the advantage that the combo will still fit in your gun bag. A larger version may be needed for the high laser.

 

Anywhere offset to the side of the vertical from the crosshairs is a compromise and should really be avoided if at all possible.

 

When you have got your laser set up as you want it you'll find that it's every bit as accurate as a big mag. FT scope for telling you the distance to your target but is MUCH faster and cheaper than that system. I can range-find and aim at any target within 8-58 yards in the time it takes just to aim. This is invaluable out in the field whilst hunting rabbits. A rabbit will happily sit there and have a laser pointed at it without running whereas birds will usually fly off at the first sight of the dot so you have to range-find quickly behind them. I can honestly say that the high laser has NEVER been a problem in the field for me in terms of catching the unit.

 

I think this covers most aspects of laser use for those likely to be interested enough to have got this far. There are other ways such as high scope / low laser for a bullpup or laser on top of barrel for ratting but what's written will cover the majority of users. So to summarise, get a Corsak, download a trajectory program and spend a few minutes playing around with different heights of laser and different zero ranges then make yourself a mount and hit what you aim at more often.

 

[1 of 5]

all of these other systems are great in theory but in practice durring an evening ratting they are far to complex to use effectively, plus i find the best use of the laser is to use it to shoot from the hip, it makes hitting rats a damned lot easier

Disagree entirely with the first part of that and as I said the laser needs to be just above the barrel to effectively shoot from the hip at ratting ranges. Anywhere else and you need to holdover and under just as with a scope.

[dunganick]

i see your point and this is fair, but i find that i can zero the lazer at about 15-20 yards, and it will be in the ball park of about half inch either way, which is pleanty enough accuracy when rating, but most people who rat alot will have a rat rig, which is all they use for rating, so this can be zerod appropriatly,

 

as always, swings and round abouts, alot of it comes down to personal choice and what conditions you are happy with.

 

my main rat shooting farm has a long 40 yard bit, (up to the cow sheds) so i require a setup that can hit the close range ones and the long range ones, i find my hw77 with the scope on 5x and the laser zerod at the zero (25yards or there abouts) gives me a fine setup, a normal evening durring winter can be anything from 10 to 20 of the little *******

[Axe]

Snakebite, If you want to use the laser for range finding, then your better off zeroing your laser to your scopes at your chosen zero. Bare in mind however, that the laser must be mounted at least 3 inches above or below the scope. This will ensure that you can visually see the movement of the laser in the recticle, enough to judge the distances. Mine is set at 25 yards though my scopes are set at 33, however this gives a clear movement through the recticle up to 45-50 yards.

 

On the other hand, if you want to use the laser for the close ranges, then zero the laser at an optimum distance close in say 10 yards. For this though, you will need to mount the laser as close as possible to the line of site through your barrel. With this done, you'll not need to use the scope and simply point the laser and squeeze the trigger.

 

I used chairgun to work out a the optimum zero for my rifle as an indication, which has worked out ok. I use my laser for range finding and it works very well. If you would like, I am more than happy to run chairgun for you to work out the optimum zero for your scope and laser, dependent on your choice of laser use.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited June 13, 2005 by Axe

[SNAKEBITE]

If you would like, I am more than happy to run chairgun for you to work out the optimum zero for your scope and laser, dependent on your choice of laser use.

Yes please.

Any chance of doing by tomorrow night so I can zero in on the field over the road from the Blackburns whils you are laying up in the Windmills?

 

I'll try to sort out the relevant info a.s.a.p.

[Axe]

No probs Snakebite, I'll hang fire till you got the info.