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Another work/ employment question

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Can any one tell me if my employer can force me to take holidays when i do not want to take them?

 

Its just that i went in the office the other day and my MD has booked me out for 7 days holiday without even asking me, I only get 24 days a year (8 of which are bank holidays), and I was saving the days for later in the year so i could go shooting over stubble, etc.

 

I have just checked my contract of employment and it says i can take them when i choose as long as i give the required notice.

 

What should i do about this?

 

Any thoughts and comments appreciated as allways.

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As far as I'm aware, employers can advise you when not to take holidays (pre christmas for retail) etc, but it is your holiday.

 

The only other one I've heard is where people are forced to take holiday if they can't make it in if there's a tube strike.

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Yes, they can tell you when to take holidays. Many factories close for a mandatory holiday, no-one gets to choose when. Soon you'll be entitled to 20 days + bank holidays, not 20 days minimum inc bank hols.

 

I have a mandatory closure in my company for the 3 or 4 days between Xmas and New Year. It is mandatory but comes out of the annual holiday allowance.

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Yes, they can tell you when to take holidays. Many factories close for a mandatory holiday, no-one gets to choose when. Soon you'll be entitled to 20 days + bank holidays, not 20 days minimum inc bank hols.

 

I have a mandatory closure in my company for the 3 or 4 days between Xmas and New Year. It is mandatory but comes out of the annual holiday allowance.

 

if his boss has booked them for him then they wont be mandatory holidays and so he can refuse them and as long as enough notice is given he can book them when HE wants

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Looks like a job for the union rep :no:

IMO he cannot force you to take the days he has booked unless the whole place is closing down for a period.

Classic case of this near me is The Potters holidays (Stoke and surrounding) The kilns are shut down for repairs etc so the whole workforce is on holiday.

It should be your choice according to your contract as you have described it :yes:

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The only time the firm has a mandatory shutdown is at christmas and we have to save some of our holidays for this.

 

Unfortunately i am not in a union.

 

So by the time i have taken the christmas break and bank holidays into account i don't get many free days to choose from, me thinks it may be time to move onwards and upwards as they say.

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The only time the firm has a mandatory shutdown is at christmas and we have to save some of me thinks it may be time to move onwards and upwards as they say.

 

You really shouldn't be so disheartened. Have you actually confronted your MD about this yet? It might just be a complete mix up!

Edited by harfordwmj

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Just re-read your original post. If it says in your contract you can choose when to have them then you have that right. Maybe your boss wants to get the rest of the year's holidays all sorted and is 'encouraging' you to book something.

 

Most bosses want to work with their staff, not against them. Just ask them!

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I know this is not what you want to hear but he CAN tell you when to take you hols but he has to give you the relevant notice normally double the time he wants you to have off so for example if he wants you to have friday off he would have to tell you wednesday morning

 

you also might like to tell him that you are entitled to 27.1 days if holiday runs from 1 jan or 28 days if hols run from 1 april assuming you work full time 5 days a week

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You really shouldn't be so disheartened. Have you actually confronted your MD about this yet? It might just be a complete mix up!

 

The last time i "confronted" my MD ( 2 years ago now) i was told not to be so pedantic, this was about mileage allowance for using my own car for busiiness use, when i was first taken on i was informed that i would be reibursed at £0.40 p p/mile as per Inland revenue guidelines, after my 1st trip it was cut to £0.15p p/mile, this didn't even cover running costs, fuel , tyres, increased service costs, depreciation etc, and i was actually losing out big time, so i had a word with him about it, and i was told in no uncertain terms that if i wanted the other 25p p/mile i would have to claim it back from the government.

 

Well i have just done this, and recieved two nice tax rebates and a huge increase in my personnal allowance, when he found this out he sent a snotty e-mail ( of which i have kept a copy) basically accusing me of fraudulent practice regarding this matter.

 

So basically i want to find out how i stand legally regarding this matter as i feel this time it will come to a head, i have tried searching on the net but have not had much luck so far.

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not sure who you work for but its not a good employer 1st are you insured for business use on a private car? probably not

 

Second do you have your terms and conditions or at least a company agreement if so read up on your hol entitlement and see your MD if it says its up to you provided you meet whatever criteria? oh and just because you are not in a union does not mean you cannot ask a union rep to represent you! some union bashers on this forum would dissagree but we would still be tugging forelocks without them ( says he on 37 hours per week and 7 weeks when I want hols)

 

cheers KW

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not sure who you work for but its not a good employer 1st are you insured for business use on a private car? probably not

 

Second do you have your terms and conditions or at least a company agreement if so read up on your hol entitlement and see your MD if it says its up to you provided you meet whatever criteria?

 

cheers KW

 

 

The car is insured for business use, I was actually informed by my employer not to bother doing that, but as i work as a Health and Safety asdvisor i felt it was only right to declare it to my insurance company, and as i do not carry goods in the vehicle, and it is only used to travel to clients sites to carry out Health and Safety training for contractors going onto power stations, oil refineries etc, they did not load my premium to much.

 

I brought my contract of employment home with me tonight and it clearly states that i can take my holidays (apart from the mandatory christmas shutdown) whenever i need to as long as i give the required notice, it looks like i will have to have a word with him and see what he says.

I have a feeling it will end in tears, and me looking for a new Job.

 

Que Sera Sera.

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Can any one tell me if my employer can force me to take holidays when i do not want to take them?

 

All holidays, depending on contract, are at "management discretion"

 

Whilst unpalatable and possibly annoying, it all comes down to the definition of "reasonable".

 

If management think they can present a case which supports their view, ie "forced" holidays", then they can probably get away with it. As Gully says, the precedent has been set many times by factories "encouraging" people to take time off during factory fortnight.

 

Any holiday request I consider takes into account the needs of the business, if I think I can manage without the resource, I'll approve it.

 

In practice no manager wants to have to deny holiday, but if he's clever you'll probably have to fall into line, or fall foul of the definition of "reasonable". If the only time management are willing to consider "reasonable" and also "meets the needs of the business" is a time you don't like, its all about the definition of "reasonable" again.

 

What a lot of people don't realise is what statutory rights to time off they may have, to see a doctor, to deal with sick or dependent relatives etc. More often than not the savvy employee can get what they want, without having to knock on the front door :yes:

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if you can get down to the C.A.B. you,ll be suprised at the info they can offer

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Hi Pin, long time since we chatted, the main problem withe this one is that i don't actually want to take the time off, i want to save the days for later on in the year, i have had no consultation about this, and i am being forced to take the time off against my will.

 

My contract of employment clearly states that if I require days off i need to give a certain amount of notice, fine, i have no problem with this at all, and if we did not have any work on at the moment i would accept these enforced holidays gladly rather than sitting in the office twiddling my thumbs, but we are quite busy.

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Hi Pin, long time since we chatted, the main problem withe this one is that i don't actually want to take the time off, i want to save the days for later on in the year, i have had no consultation about this, and i am being forced to take the time off against my will.

 

My contract of employment clearly states that if I require days off i need to give a certain amount of notice, fine, i have no problem with this at all, and if we did not have any work on at the moment i would accept these enforced holidays gladly rather than sitting in the office twiddling my thumbs, but we are quite busy.

 

I'm an employee too, I see both sides equally. I only say from experience. If I want to and I can stand up to questioning I can make people take holiday when I want, it's not easy and its not something I like doing, but I have to sometimes.

 

Most often it comes up around xmas, ignore the statutory thing, just about everyone wants to take xmas week off. I run an engineering function, they can't all be off so someone ends up being forced to NOT take the holiday they want.

 

Take that to the extreme and you can all but force people to take time off when YOU want.

 

Here's that word again, "reasonable". Employers have to consider all reasonable requests - to justify choosing when people take holiday the whole business would have to be in it and be willing to stand up to an employment tribunal - if they line up properly it CAN happen.

 

I wouldn't want to work for a business where that happened, however I do hear from a lot of people who get bullied and end up agreeing to something because they think they have to, once you agree (unless you are prepared to take it to tribunal) you pretty much have to live with it.

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i work as a Health and Safety asdvisor

 

Handy that, as the recruitment company i work for specialises in H&S. Fancy just getting a better job...?!

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When you take your employment on they have to tell you if they have a company closedown and the number of holidays you would have to use out of your entitlement. Also If it is also mandatory to work bank holidays.

 

In the past I have worked in finance roles where I have had to work bank holidays as part of my contract but it was told to me before and when I signed my contract.

 

If the company does not have fixed holidays for all the workforce, then he cannot tell you when you have to take your holidays. He can only tell you when you cannot take them if it is inconvenient.

 

Look at your contract of employment it will say in there how many holidays and regulations, and how and when they are to be taken. Some companies say no more than two weeks off at a time.

 

However if you are taking holidays over from one year to the next holiday year most companies will stipulate they have to be used by a certain date ie within three months of start of holiday year but they still will not dictate when you have to take them. If you did not take them in this time you would loose them. Some companies dont give you the option to carry over holidays at all.

 

On the subject on the car 40p is per IR regulations and this is the rate companies use for reimbursement for mileage based on the first so many thouthand and then it reduces if you are a high mileage user.

If you are using your car for business use and not insured for it, you will have problems if you need to make a claim and also if you have declared a certain mileage per year ie. 10000 and then go over it, this will also affect your insurance.

 

They cannot make you use your car for business use - they can only ask you and you can refuse.

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Handy that, as the recruitment company i work for specialises in H&S. Fancy just getting a better job...?!

 

 

You never know, pm me the details, i have just been looking on the net and discovered one local paying a stupendous amount of money for something i am allready doing now.

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If the company does not have fixed holidays for all the workforce, then he cannot tell you when you have to take your holidays. He can only tell you when you cannot take them if it is inconvenient.

 

Look at your contract of employment it will say in there how many holidays and regulations, and how and when they are to be taken. Some companies say no more than two weeks off at a time.

 

 

 

I do not have a scanner so i have copy typed what it says ref holidays.

 

HOLIDAY ENTITLEMENT

 

COMPANY NAME----------

 

Your annual holiday entitlement will be 24 DAYS in line with government guidance.

Eight days of the annual holiday entitlement are to be used to cover BANK HOLIDAYS.

Ten days are to be used for annual holiday entiitlement.

All remaining days may be taken at 0.5 days per calendar month

 

ADDITIONAL DAYS MAY BE TAKEN BUT ONLY WITH MANAGEMENTS PRIOR APPROVAL.

A MAXIMUM OF 1 DAY MAY BE CARRIED OVER TO NEXT YEARS ENTITLEMENT.

HOLIDAY HOURS MUST BE USED TO COVER ALL HOSPITAL/DENTAL APPOINTMENTS.

 

The holiday entitlement will be renewed on December 31st

 

THE OFFICE MUST BE COVERED AT ALL TIMES, THEREFORE ALL DAYS MUST BE BOOKED IN ADVANCE, AND APPROVED WHERE APPROPRIATE SO THAT COVER MAY BE ARRANGED.

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Plenty of advice here but have you stoped to think why he is trying to force this on you .

I have had to do the same with my staff this year ,normaly they have what they want ,but not this year . Business is hard this year and the down turn has effected most types of business . We realy need to plan ahead and stay on top of what is available ,so knowing when you have the man power and what man power you have helps . I had to decide weather I kept all my staff or lay six off , the option was their's . It would have been easy for me to lay six off and use agencie staff , but I value my people and know full well what it's like to be out of work at such a time . Been there once many years ago ,and it's not nice . Easy to say I'll find another job , but you will find that there are not many out there ,and what is ,is only short term . Sorry my friend but you need to sit back and look whats happening around you ,at least you have a job and should be grateful .I'm sure many would like to change places with you .

 

:yes:

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