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The_Craws

Help please!

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Hello people!

 

I know nothing what so ever about air-guns and information is hard to come-by regarding all the different types you can get. I could go to my gun shop and ask but their main aim in life is to sell me something so I am asking you kind people for some advice!

 

I was thinking about getting an air-gun that I could use to shoot rabbits. I know there are all different types of air gun with all different prices up to £1000.

 

I was wondering what kind I would be wanting to get, I realise that there are spring, pre-charged, CO2 types, etc. and the ones you need to pump up for every shot - which I used to have and found it a pain in the butt.

 

I realise ultimately it will come down to budget. However, knowing next to nothing about them, I dont know in what price range I will get something decent I don't want to fork out 200 quid and find out that it was maybe a better idea to save up some more for a decent one. There is no chance that I'd spend over 500 quid on an air-gun because I can't see the point unless someone can explain to me what the benefits would be.

 

It would be a non-FAC air gun I would be after and if the potential is there to upgrade it to a FAC later on if I decide to apply for a FAC would be a bonus.

 

I know most come bundled with a scope; I don't need one because I have a Pecar Berlin Champion 6x45 scope sitting waiting.

 

Any help would be much appreciated.

 

Thanks!

 

:unsure:

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I was going to get one while I was waiting for my FAC to turn up, but never got round to it as it turned up quite quickly. I looked a BSA and Gammo, and IMHO the gammo springers seemed to be the best, they were lighter and seemingly better quality at around £150. Strangely though, I have not heard much about them on the forum, although all the agricultural places round here seem to stock them.

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You'll be opening a can of worms with that quest but I have recently walked the same path myself.

 

Personally, I wouldnt go for anything but a PCP now. Ive had a springer and tried several others like my mates HW77. Great guns but not as useful as a PCP with a sound moderator.

 

I have recently bought a secondhand Logun S16. It came with the Logun TDR Bag, Logun Bipods, Crossman Laser and Walther 3-9x40 PA Illuminated scope. I paid 300 notes for the lot and have found it to be very good at stopping rabbits up to a range of 35metres. The rifle is very accurate. Some would say in general, that the Mk1 doesnt offer the reliability that it should. Ive been in contact with Logun who offer a lifetime warranty with service, which is only required once every two years. The hysteria behind the Mk1 versions have lead it to be purchased at very reasonable amounts. Touch wood, i've had no problems and regular cleaning and maintenace will keep it that way.

 

That said, if I had a little extra dosh I would have, most certainly, gone for a Rapid Mk1 as this rifle seems to be highly desired and cherished in the airgun community. It delivers deadly accuracy and performance. But it will cost the extra pennies. It may suit your criteria better though as a sub 12ft/lb can be uprated to FAC at a later date.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited by Axe

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O.k. then here is my 2 pence worth!

 

I have a Weirach Hw 57. You can get one for under £200.

As far as I am concerned it is ideal for where I am at within the sport now.

It is accurate, reliable and good value for money.

 

You would be best buying something along the same lines, remembering you will need money for all the other forgotten things like camoflauged clothing and a gun case. All this can mount up but can be bought cheap second hand or off e-bay etc.

 

Once you have the gun then you have to learn your field craft. This cannot be bought and is learned by experience (trust me I learnt the hard way :unsure: ) If you can learn from others then even better but to a large extent I taught myself and it took me months to take my first rabbit.

 

If after you have been practising and feel confident that you can kill cleanly then go into the field. If you can shoot a springer well you can do anything. If you move onto a p.c.p. after a springer you will take this experience with you and you will be a better shot. I have used AXEs' Logun and found it very hard to miss. It was almost TOO easy.

 

So Springer or P.C.P.?

 

I would say learn on a springer then move onto a p.c.p.. Learn the basics and build a good base, as I am doing now myself.

 

Would I have a p.c.p.? Yes if the money allowed it (does this make me a hypocrite?) but I feel it is better to start with a springer.

 

Now do you want .22 or .177.......................

 

 

:lol::lol::lol: B) :P:P:lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol::lol:

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Thank you for all the quick responses.

 

1 of 5 there are no clubs near me from them two sites. :unsure:

 

I would rather get a PCP rifle, I dont see the economic benefit in buying a springer and then a year down the line to get rid of it in favour of a PCP that I could have bought in the first place. Although I take your point on board that it may be marginally beneficial to learn airgunning techniques with a springer first SNAKEBITE.

 

I found a deal in a magazine for a new Logun S16 with silencer, 16 shot mag, filling adapter and a logun case for 349 quid. Is that a decent price for a new one?

 

What is the difference in the two calibers?

 

Thanks!

Edited by The_Craws

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What is the difference in the two calibers?

You had to ask didn't you :lol::lol::lol:

 

This is a question that will run until the end of time and still there will not be a definative answer.

 

If you are new to this I would say go for a .22.

Good points are that it will allow a little leeway in the kill area but do not take this as an excuse for not practising!! Poor accuracy is not acceptable.

Bad points are you will have to learn more hold over techniques for various distances. Still makes it more of a challenge. B)

 

A .117 will give a flatter trajectory.

 

People will debate penetration and stopping power till the cows come home and they will all be right half the time.

 

Personally I'd say go for a .22 but what do I know?!? :unsure:

 

OH AND WHERE DID YOU SEE THIS DEAL FOR THE LOGUN?

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Calibre, calibre...oh snakey what have you started.

 

Well calibre is always gonna be debated and everyone has their own view. Simply put .177 offers a better trajector i.e. less drop at range and will certainly stop a rabbit with a well placed shot. But on a PCP you get fewer shots from a single bottle fill. With .22 the range and drop are less but the pellet hits the target slightly harder producing the obvious results. You also get a larger number of shots so you'll spend less time pumping and more time pulling the trigger.

 

IMHO the smaller calibre is better for target shooting and the larger is better for hunting. But then all my rifles are .22 so I am biased. If I had found a good deal on a .177 I would have bought it, a well placed shot is a well placed shot. That after all, is the name of the game.

 

Im not sure I totally agree with you snakey regards the springer course. The idea is to take your quarry with a well placed and confident shot. If my Logun offered you little chance of missing then that is the way forward. If you can do the same with your springer then good on ya mate, the quarry must come first (btw that was a great shot over the paddock the other day!). I do however agree that there is little to be lost by learning the field techniques and being patient is the best way to be.

 

Regards,

 

Axe.

Edited by Axe

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Ignore the S16 as it's a complete lemon. It'll spend more time being fixed than shooting which is why they can't give them away. For a pcp consider Air arms 400 or 410 or a BSA Hornet. Both quality guns at good prices. If you want cheaper the Air Arms S200 or BSA Spitfire are good value. The Logun Solo is also well rated. As to calibre, if sticking to sub 12 ft/lb get a .177 as the loopy trajectory of the .22 makes shot placement hard. With an airgun shot placement is everything. If you intend to go FAC later you'll need a .22 for best results but you'll also need a gun that'll easily upgrade to FAC. Non of my recommendations are great FAC guns due to air reservoir size. As FAC airguns are worth a lot less than 12 ft/lb versions though it'll be cheaper to sell the 12 ft/lb gun and buy a secondhand FAC version of something else than to get one converted.

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You are right in what you say about the placed shot (and about that being a good shot in the paddock! :unsure: the blowing noise is me on my own trumpet :lol: )

 

Regardless of what calibre it is, it's where you put the shot that counts. Period.

 

 

 

Going back to the shot in the paddock (just to make sure everyone knows what a good shot it was :lol: PARRRRRRP) I got more satisfaction from it because it was from a springer than I would have if it was a p.c.p.. Am I making sense?

It's because a springer is harder to shoot and what I achieved was a result of practise and hard work rather than luck. NOT taking anything away from p.c.p. users!!

Does anyone get where I'm coming from? :lol:

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Ignore the S16 as it's a complete lemon. It'll spend more time being fixed than shooting which is why they can't give them away.

Could you quantify your comments please. I assume you have knowledge of this gun. Not trying to be funny but I was going to get one (eventually....... :unsure: )

 

Is the MK2 any different?

Have they rectified the problems?

I am not worried about a gun being "fashionable" or the latest must have design I want a RELIABLE and SOLID field gun.

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you should consider the THEOBEN mk2 it is a good gun gives about 500 shots in .22 before the bottle needs filling and is easy to convert to FAC status Ben Taylor the Ben in theoben has a place near cambridge he does the upgrade while you wait he took mine up to 26ftlbs and i still get 120 shots from a full bottle.

its a very accurate gun but they all are if you put the practice in and PCP are good to shoot with a lot quieter than springers. :unsure: :lol::lol::lol: B) :P

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you should consider the THEOBEN mk2 it is a good gun

But is this not a little "expensive" as a first gun?

Not knocking the thing as I have no experience at all of it but this seems to be a gun that you "work up to"

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you could be right about the price for first gun but you can pick up some good secondhand one from the shooting mags for about the £500 mark.

its one of the best to convert to FAC and still give a good number of shots.i thought that was the intention and by paying the little bit extra could save money in the long run.

my thinking could be wrong.

another good pcp for the price is the falcon FN19 and FN12 range you can pick them up cheap and they are a good gun.

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I would sujest the air arms S410K bloody exelent gun, Its the first PCP I have brought even though I have tried other air rifles I have found this gun very accurate and light weight. You can pick one of these up pretty cheap second hand!

I got mine for 395, 1 year old with scope and silencer! mint condition?

Hope this helps

PD

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its one of the best to convert to FAC and still give a good number of shots.i thought that was the intention and by paying the little bit extra could save money in the long run.

my thinking could be wrong.

I think you have a fair point.

Buy the one gun and let it grow with you!!!!!!!

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Here’s a rifle that people seem to have forgotten about. And they are fairly inexpensive too retailing @ £300-£350 depending on wood.

http://www.webley.co.uk/raider.php3

G.M.

Dont go for the Webley if you ever want to upgrade you will find it almost impossible to sell it on :unsure:

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Because people are only interested in the latest fad, and not with buying a nice rifle and keeping it.

I still have my old BSA Meteor which I bought 35 years ago. If you want to get another rifle later on then do that, you can still keep the one you have and take pride in it for many years to come.

You don’t HAVE to sell one air rifle just to buy another, and let’s face it, you will lose a bloody fortune on the original price what ever gun you choose.

If you don’t fancy the Webley then that’s OK….just giving another option that’s all. :unsure:

G.M.

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Yeh, If I were buying one it would be to keep. I'm not interested in fashions, if it works and keeps working then thats good enough for me.

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The Raider is a fine weapon.

 

I think the point Wigeon was trying to make is if you decide to go down the FAC route with the Raider the shots per charge ratio will decrease so dramatically that you will strugle to sell it.

 

Ive owned a Raider and loved it, its got a very solid feel to it. Very weighty. Second hand models are usually floating around for £170-£220 depending on the stock, single shot / twin shot, etc etc.

 

SNAKEBITE - the £349 Logun s16 deal is by JSR (www.jsramsbottom.com)

 

For a pcp consider Air arms 400 or 410 or a BSA Hornet. Both quality guns at good prices. If you want cheaper the Air Arms S200 or BSA Spitfire are good value. The Logun Solo is also well rated

Id agree with that. Id also add a MKI or II Superten to the list. They can be picked up for very little secondhand due to the recent arrival of the MK III variant. If you manage to find a decent example then you certainly will be buying to keep.

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Was there any more feedback on why the Logun S16 is "a lemon"?

 

............ From anyone?

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I think the point Wigeon was trying to make is if you decide to go down the FAC route with the Raider the shots per charge ratio will decrease so dramatically that you will strugle to sell it.

Yep sorry to not have been more specific :unsure:

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Was there any more feedback on why the Logun S16 is  "a lemon"?

 

............ From anyone?

Im a member of other shooting related forums that can be found on the www. I also know a good number of folk that are 'in the trade'.

 

Never has the same gun cropped up so often in conversation within that cricle of folk i have listed above. Now there are two reasons why it seems to get a mention....

 

1. Fellers who are new to the sport are mesmerised by the job done by the Logun marketing guys and as such they are interested in the gun.

 

2. People saying they have had to send it back to Logun to get problems ironed out.

 

Ive never owned one so i can only advise based on what i have heard. The most common problem seems to be associated with the cocking mechanism, prone to jamming.

 

I have heard of them loosing air, gripes with the build quality and multiple returns to Logun (same rifle).

 

I am though pretty sure that Logun offer a lifteime warranty on the gun so at least you have this to fall back on. By all accounts Loguns service is 'decent'.

 

Ive heard very little of the updated s16 S (the shrouded barrel version). Wether Logun have ironed out the problems im unsure.

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