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Springador


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yes I agree with teal27 I train gundogs and can assure you springadors are not pointless far from it they are perfect for the field, these type of dogs will hunt and retrieve all day without any slowdown, and don't get me wrong I have trained a lot of lab's as well they are lovely dogs but in my opinion springador's have the edge especially if you do all different types of shooting ie pigeon,rough etc .

And to say Labradors and springers are pure bred is just showing ignorance about dogs NO dogs are pure bred ALL dogs have mixed blood just like humans have were there any Labradors or springer spaniels a few hundred years ago I think not ..

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  • 1 month later...

this year my springador bitch has already won 6 rossettes 1 third 1 second and 4 firsts as well as over £300 00 worth of prises in various gundog scurries shes not 3years yet these dogs when trained correctly will out perform any lab in timed scurries as they do it quicker ive experienced this time and time again also she comes pigeon shooting with me at least once a week all thru the year, don't matter were they fall she will find them .

springador gundogs

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  • 2 weeks later...

The big question is if u have an excellent springer/cocker dor or sprocker for that matter, wot do u put to her?

 

There is evidence thet 1st gen crosses do live slightly longer and keep slightly more healthy than pure pedigree animals, but when u get into the 2nd and 3rd gen crosses it tend to go downhill.

 

There is no question of all the many stupid crosses out there the springerdor can be a very decent gundog, but there will be question marks over how a litter will turn out than with a striaght breed.

And springerdors are definately not a new idea, they will have be going about since labs and springers were created and kept in the same kennel, accidents happen, intentially breeding them together may be becoming more common.

Dogs have been bred certain ways for a reason.

 

Wouldn't say no to 1 as a working dog if it was free but doubt i'd ever buy 1, costs the same to keep/feed as a pure breed dog, might as well have a dog u could potentially breed with if it turned into a decent dog

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mixed breeding is what keeps dogs healthy physically and mentally where do you think Labradors or ess's come from these breeds are man made, the only limitations any dog have is in the trainers ability to understand the individual dog , personally I would rather see healthier dogs in the field they have more drive and live longer..

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yes I agree with teal27 I train gundogs and can assure you springadors are not pointless far from it they are perfect for the field, these type of dogs will hunt and retrieve all day without any slowdown, and don't get me wrong I have trained a lot of lab's as well they are lovely dogs but in my opinion springador's have the edge especially if you do all different types of shooting ie pigeon,rough etc .

And to say Labradors and springers are pure bred is just showing ignorance about dogs NO dogs are pure bred ALL dogs have mixed blood just like humans have were there any Labradors or springer spaniels a few hundred years ago I think not ..

 

The duke of Buccleuch and someone else started bring ing Lab's into the country in 1830 odd, so they must of existed. And before that u would of had ur classic retriever breeds curly coated, flat and golden.

I'd imagine spaniels are even older althou not ur modern ESS and cocker, be ur oder breeds clumbers sussex, field etc (at 1 time ur cocker just refered to a small spaniel and ESS to a bigger 1)

 

While most dogs/breeds will have originated from similar lines, but to get them to bred true is something different altogether

 

Not going to slag springerdors off completely as seen some good 1's but it also a falacy to claim every springador will be better than both lab and a spaniel. Plenty of rubbish ones out there too.

 

With a pure bred dog breed or line, knowledagbale breeders will have a fair idea wot most of the pups should turn out like and know wot genes are dominant or reccessive, and wot % of pups could be carriers of reccessive genes, does not guarantee every time but odds should be in ur favour. And esp now with health testing/screening not many working gundog lines are unhealthy.

When breeding a mongral u have no idea how different genes will mix, wot genes will be dominant or reccessive and wot phenotypes will come to the fore, just complete pot luck.

And for ur 2 gen breeding its even more pot luck but u lose ur hybrid vigor so good chance it will be less healthy than a pure bred dog.

 

There is a reason why for hundreds of years folk have bred pure bred dogs, i'm pretty sure ur not the 1st to have this idea and u won't be the last, eventually u'll have a bad litter or problems and realise wot the old timers knew.

And this was long before KC ever existed or any money involved or any fashion or any other reason for having a pure bred dog, they're just better and more predicatable to breed with.

 

There is also the danger with mongerals that onwers don't keep thrack of the pedigree the way u would with a KC dog and potentially mating related dogs. Equally true of un kc registered dogs too, but how many owners of a springador have a copy of the pedigree?

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There is also the danger with mongerals that onwers don't keep thrack of the pedigree the way u would with a KC dog and potentially mating related dogs. Equally true of un kc registered dogs too, but how many owners of a springador have a copy of the pedigree?

 

Look at what the KC £$%^"£" 's will allow to be certificated in terms of a breeding and you will find that The KC will allow matings that if the dogs where human would even be frowned upon in Norfolk.

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There is also the danger with mongerals that onwers don't keep thrack of the pedigree the way u would with a KC dog and potentially mating related dogs. Equally true of un kc registered dogs too, but how many owners of a springador have a copy of the pedigree?

 

Look at what the KC £$%^"£" 's will allow to be certificated in terms of a breeding and you will find that The KC will allow matings that if the dogs where human would even be frowned upon in Norfolk.

 

Ur are spot on i'm no fan of KC either or many aspects off medern dog breeding BUT atleast that is the owners (hopefully informed??) choice an awful lot of folk with unregistered dogs have no idea of the pedigree. I've had a few come to me to use a dog and they have no idea wot sort of lines/breeding they have.

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When some one mentions Springador I always visualize a Sliding Door, Revolving Door, Patio Door or Double Door...I don't know why... perhaps I've been in the building game too long...

 

My family has a long association with Springers going back to before the war. I remember reading an excerpt from a Book about the species by Dorothy Moorland Hooper which went something like this...

 

" The ESS is the Maid of all work, it will Hunt, Point, Flush and Retrieve with the best of them, face the thickest of brambles with total distain and swim like an otter "

 

I've often wondered why someone would want to cross a particular breed with another of less admirable qualities, particularly as the Springer is probably the most perfect all-round gun dog there is.

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  • 3 months later...

I do all types off shooting so I wanted a dog that was more durable/versatile for want of a better word, a dog that would retrieve anything anywhere, yes labs are good for the purpose they were intended and yes springer's are good for the purpose they were intended but as I said I wanted more, so a lab x springer it was, what I wanted was a small black lab on steroids so to speak and that's what I got.

my lab x springer gundog will go anywhere through a thorn hedge, a pond, ditch, dyke, jump any obstacle in her way to get the mark, she is also a superb flush dog for rough shooting and a excellent dog in the pigeon hide will go all day no tiring very clever dog as I only use dead birds as decoys and will just sniff them as they have my cent on them will leave them and pick up the fresh shot birds only, she has won 3 first's 2 second's and a third in gundog scurry's this year.

And all with a guaranteed 2 pips on the whistle she's back by my feet, so it matters not the dog but the training and dedication given to the dog and for what you want from the dog,

The only downside is they are a bit accident prone as they are fearless so expect a few cuts and bumps ...

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Selective breeding has produced so called Labradors which look half cross welsh collies ...long narrow curly tails , no coat to speak of, short spindly bow legs...need I go on? All in the name of SPEED by the trialer brigade. Hardly ever see a proper lab conformation these days.

 

I hit a cock pheasant hard on Saturday but knew it was not a certain dead bird, the very high wind and speed of the bird carried it on across a field of rape, which was a good 18 inches high and thick, for about 400yrds. I carefully marked the drop by cross references points on the horizon as the field was a good 60acres or more. Told the young picker up who had a springador at his heel. On my directions he walked across the field to about 50yrds of where I saw it drop and set his dog ahead. It quatered for about 20yrds and suddenly stopped and stared into the rape, moved forward about 10 yards and the cock tried to take off but the dog had it and made the retrieve. Nuff said.

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If springadors are truely as good as the last 2 posts why does everyone not own 1 instead of a lab or a springer?

Springerdors have been about as long as both breeds, its nothing new..

Yes u can get some very good ones but an awful lot of owners tend to have the blinkers on when it comes to theirdog/breed.

They can only be as good as the parents, putting pooor labs/spaniels together does not produce some wonder dog

 

They are not some wonder breed, a decent a (proper bred) lab should dp all the above and to be fair so should a well trained springer.

In my area we're quite lucky as the majority of the labs are still 'proper' even from the local FT trainers, as old established kennels/lines.

U'll never get a lab to needlessly run into cover till its face is bleeding after 30 mins, but i have seen my labs enter cover spaniels have turned away from if here is game/scentin there and on 1 shoot they had a spaniel FT when some spaniel handlers refused to enter their dogs as cover was too heavy yet my labs pick up or beat in that cover week in/out

Any lab that will not enter cover/brairs or whins on command esp if some scent is a complete waste of time as a working dog wether picking up, beating or shooting over

 

 

I'm no fan of the FT brigade and they have ruined the working breeds over the past 30yrs just as much as the show lot have, look at the size of springers and cockers nowadays all cos smaller dogs look flashier and faster, many of them struggle to carry a large cock pheasant and a hare s almost as big as some cockers., Even with springers going almost all white too as looks flashier

The dog breeding in this country has went backwards very quickly in last 30yrs since FT become more popular and money for studs fee's and pups increased

 

Would i have a springador? Yes but it would have to be very cheap or free of decent working parents

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scotslad ... well put. I have seen many different breeds and cross breeds hunt and retrieve. almost 70yrs ago I had two corgis. They were the farm cattle dogs but loved to get down the hedges for a morning after rabbits and me in pursuit with the 410. They would carry a rabbit no problem. Why? because as a kid I took pride in my dogs doing what other kids dogs wouldn't and spent hours with them training them to retrieve anything for me they could carry. If I was twenty years younger, I would have springador and happily pay the vendor a sensible price. Poor dogs usually means poor trainers.

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Ok here goes, it's not rocket science, people have been refining the gundog breeds over many (read hundreds) of years. You want a dog (for the most part) to flush and retrieve you go spaniel. You want a dog to be steady and retrieve for the most part you go lab.

 

You can use either type to do the others job if you so wish but mixing the two has no garauntee of getting the best of both worlds.

 

Sure there are people who say 'I had a springerdor and it was a good dog' - but that's nothing compared to the number of people with good springers or good labs. They were bred differently by people who know better than you or I and for this reason I see no point in deliberately messing with something which works perfectly as intended.

 

 

i understand your reasoning.......but i disagree............i have had over many years both pure and crosses working together............and if i had my time again i would do exactly the same..................one of the best all round working dogs i have ever seen ...was a American cocker X springer..........

 

i think to get what you need ....it is important to know what is behind the parents before crossing.......and i dont mean looks.......all my black and white sprockers came out of the ugliest lemon and white springer i have ever seen.........

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aaahhhhh!! but what did you put into those dogs Ditchman,for them to serve you so well, that is the point here. I have over the years seen maniac dogs of all breeds and creeds and you only had to observe the owners for 30 seconds. It takes a huge amount of time and patience to make a dog what you want it to be and many just don't get it, to the detriment of the dog .... I bet you all know their names ...the dogs I mean, echoing down the game strip :-(

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