Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Just watching something on TV (Police program) and a guy was found to have an 'illegal lock knife' in his car. They said "he's got a Stanley knife, but that would be work related" The knife blade was under 3" long and had a safety lock (the usual lock knife type, nothing chavvy). So why does this now make it illegal? I have one that looks pretty much the same... Edited August 11, 2009 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
staffi man Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 was he using it for skinning or just skinning up lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boromir Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I watching the programe as well and I to have a similur one to that knife, I dont get it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I watching the programe as well and I to have a similur one to that knife, I dont get it. Exactly... I looked and was like, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferret Master Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Genuine reason for possession needed maybe? What about that thing that cut your hand open at Bisley? FM Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Talking of knives billy could you pm me the make of that assisted open one you have? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Genuine reason for possession needed maybe? What about that thing that cut your hand open at Bisley? FM Haha, yes, that was the one. Remember though that I only cut my hand AFTER mungler had sharpened it. May I add that I am blaming its 'assisted opening' for making the blade clip my left hand little finger....! Oh the day that my FAC says "The named person on this certificate may be in possession of a knife in a public place, given that he can produce a good reason as to why he is carrying it" :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Talking of knives billy could you pm me the make of that assisted open one you have? Certainly mate. It's a Kershaw Blur (Unlike the photo, mine has a partially serrated blade) I got mine on eBay for about £50. You can get it a bit cheaper if you order it from the states. Someone was actually selling one on the watch a while back. I tried to get it but it was snapped up very quickly Edited August 11, 2009 by harfordwmj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
libs Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Certainly mate. It's a Kershaw Blur (Unlike the photo, mine has a partially serrated blade) I got mine on eBay for about £50. You can get it a bit cheaper if you order it from the states. Someone was actually selling one on the watch a while back. I tried to get it but it was snapped up very quickly cheers for that. Ill have a look around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cannon Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Watched the same programme. It was a lock knife then a stanley knife. Unless it was a stanley lock knife lol. But as for illegal.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I believe the laws changed. Any knife with a locking mechanisum (3'' or otherwise) is now considered illegal to the terms of having a knife over 3''. This is because it is considered a dagger or something. you know have to either have a folding (like a pen-knife) or fixed blade. It's the stupid chav's fault, you know. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 I believe the laws changed. Any knife with a locking mechanisum (3'' or otherwise) is now considered illegal to the terms of having a knife over 3''. This is because it is considered a dagger or something. you know have to either have a folding (like a pen-knife) or fixed blade. It's the stupid chav's fault, you know. **** law is that I get arrested for that whilst carrying a .270 rifle and 50 bullets in my pocket! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Remember though that I only cut my hand AFTER mungler had sharpened it. So let me get this right. Mungler sharpened your hand? :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy. Posted August 11, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 So let me get this right. Mungler sharpened your hand? :hmm: Yeah, exactly that. I have a little finger that can cut cheese Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loopy bunny blaster Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 when i go shooting i have a buck sheath knife i always take with me, the local plod exercises their dogs down one of the lanes in the fields near where i shoot, they have never said anything to me about it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 Yeah, exactly that. I have a little finger that can cut cheese Well when you do be careful not to circumnavigate yourself :hmm: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuck. Posted August 11, 2009 Report Share Posted August 11, 2009 (edited) Just watching something on TV (Police program) and a guy was found to have an 'illegal lock knife' in his car. They said "he's got a Stanley knife, but that would be work related" The knife blade was under 3" long and had a safety lock (the usual lock knife type, nothing chavvy). So why does this now make it illegal? I have one that looks pretty much the same... I used to watch those 'Police Programs' for a laugh watching the numptys try to outrun the heli etc. But whenever firearms/knives were mentioned they were always the illegal kind. I think its all just hype for the adverts really.. I've seen some episodes of people being arrested in a class A drug raid and having 'Illegal imitation bb guns' or something similar found 'hidden' by a bed or something. Now either it's another stab (pardon the pun) at legal 'weapons?' in general, or Bleeh is right and the Law has indeed changed. Edited August 11, 2009 by Shuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 The law is whatever the tyrants make it out to be. Whatever will not benefit the peopel and make them more servants than in control of their lives that is what the "law" is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dieseldogg Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 On the other hand one could carry a "Silky Fox" pruning saw 15" of razor sharp steel, nicely serrated too Need to remember to cut on the pull stroke is all Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
toka_shigazu Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 just dug this up.... The CJA 1988 mainly relates to carrying knives in public places, section 139 being the most important: (1) Subject to subsections (4) and (5) below, any person who has an article to which this section applies with him in a public place shall be guilty of an offence. (2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to any article which has a blade or is sharply pointed except a folding pocketknife. (3) This section applies to a folding pocketknife if the cutting edge of its blade exceeds 3 inches. (4) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under this section to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article with him in a public place. The phrase "good reason" in subsection 4 is intended to allow for "common sense" possession of knives, so that it is legal to carry a knife if there is a bona fide reason to do so. Subsection 5 gives some specific examples of bona fide reasons: a knife for use at work (e.g. a chef's knife), as part of a national costume (e.g. a sgian dubh for the Scottish national costume), or for religious reasons (e.g. a Sikh Kirpan). The special exception which exists in the Criminal Justice Act 1988 (s139) for folding knives (pocket knives) is another "common sense" measure accepting that some small knives are carried for general utility; however, even a folding pocket knife of less than 3" (76 mm) may still be considered an offensive weapon if carried or used for that purpose. It is a common belief that a folding knife must be non-locking for this provision to apply, but the wording of the Criminal Justice Act does not mention locking and the matter becomes a question as to the definition of "folding pocket knife". In the case of R. v Desmond Garcia Deegan (1998) in the Court of Appeal of England and Wales, the ruling that 'folding' was intended to mean 'non-locking' was upheld. As the only higher court in England and Wales is the House of Lords the only way this ruling could be overturned is by a dissenting ruling by the Court of Appeal, the Appellate Committee of the House of Lords or by Act of Parliament. The same Act (as amended 1996) also covers the possession of knives within school premises: (1) Any person who has an article to which section 139 of this Act applies with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence. (2) Any person who has an offensive weapon within the meaning of section 1 of the M1 Prevention of Crime Act 1953 with him on school premises shall be guilty of an offence. (3) It shall be a defence for a person charged with an offence under subsection (1) or (2) above to prove that he had good reason or lawful authority for having the article or weapon with him on the premises in question. (This is followed by subsection 4 which gives the same specific excuses as subsection 139(5) with the addition of "for educational purposes".) This would appear to imply that all legislation on knives in public applies similarly to school premises, and therefore a folding pocket knife under 3" in length would be considered legal. The same Act (as amended 1996) also imposes an age restriction on the sale of knives: (1) Any person who sells to a person under the age of sixteen years an article to which this section applies shall be guilty of an offence [...] (2) Subject to subsection (3) below, this section applies to— (a) any knife, knife blade or razor blade, [...] (Exceptions follow for safety razor blades, so only straight razors are affected.) British courts have in the past taken the marketing of a particular brand of knife into account when considering whether an otherwise legal folding knife was carried as an offensive weapon. A knife which is marketed as "tactical", "military", "special ops", etc. could therefore carry an extra liability. The Knives Act 1997 now restricts the marketing of knives as offensive weapons and thus it is much less likely that such marketing could be used as evidence against a defendant. Although English law insists that it is the responsibility of the prosecution to provide evidence proving a crime has been committed, an individual must provide evidence to prove that they had a bona fide reason for carrying a knife (if this is the case). While this may appear to be a reversal of the usual burden of proof, technically the prosecution has already proven the case (prima facie) by establishing that a knife was being carried in a public place there is some other legislation that now states anyone carrying a bladed article can be arrested [but i cant find it]....the 3" rule has gone now, a knife is a knife. the common sense clause doesn't depend on your common sense but that of the officers stopping you...a lot will now deal with you [arrest etc] and let the courts make that decision as to whether or not you had good reason to be carrying a knife. an example up here was a carpet fitter, who having finished for lunch went to pizza hut for something to eat. someone called the police as he still had his work belt on and a large carpet stanley knife in a sheath. the officers arrived and after a 10 minute discussion about whether it was reasonable that he was carrying it when he was not actually working, but in a public place having lunch, common sense shone through and he was allowed to go [having been shamed infront of all witnessing the discussion]... the officers could very well have arrested him, and told him so [probably to let concerned public know they were dealing with the issue proactively] it is no longer the blade, if you have a knife you have to be able to justify having it, if the officer aint happy you will have to do it infront of the beak!! 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gixer1 Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 Fair enough on the "good reason" thing but a carpet fitter? what a load of tosh! just another step towards nanny state.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
palombier Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 (edited) Toka I was not aware that the 3" rule for folding penknives had been repealed. In fact I challenge you to find the legislation that says so. It is right to say that any lock knife with a blade of any length is a bladed article under s 139 Criminal Justice Act by virtue of the stated case and that to possess one in a public place unless a person has good reason or lawful authority is an offence. But you can still possess a folding pocket knife (less than 3 inches), which is not a lock knife, in a public place provided it is not intended as an offensive weapon. P Edited August 12, 2009 by palombier Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 There are many laws that haven't been repealed, it's just the government making the public think that they have and once they say something has been repealed without it having so (lying) then of course what is the average guy going to do. "Break the law" or follow it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MC Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 At the end of the day this is all academic. If you have a knife on you while at shooting then there is a valid reason. Have one in your pocket in a pub or tesco's and you deserve to have your collar felt, regardless of size or whether the blade locks or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danccooke Posted August 12, 2009 Report Share Posted August 12, 2009 I live in the country and thus I don't see lots of coppers and I don't get stopped randomly. This also leads me into the possible trouble of always having a leatherman tool on my belt and a decent knife in the car. Half the time I am out and about I have some form of blade on my person. Things I have used my knife for when out and about....... I might just pick a few mushrooms using the blade to ease the whole root out so wifey can check that it is what i think it is......And a few weeks ago driving to work early morning an idiot in front of me didn't see a deer run out onto the road in front of him, he didn't break or swerve and ploughed it down leaving his headlights and bumpers. I pulled up to move debris from the road, The deer was twitching and in spasm, I took my knife and put it through the throat and out the front taking arteries and killing it. I then dragged it off of the road.... Obviously I can't always say "well Officer I had my knife in case someone wings a deer in front of me." I just think it is sad that so many idiots spoil things for everyone else, but then that is the story of everyone's life. I really have to be careful when heading into town to make sure that I don't have anything on me. When at work though i always have my leatherman and have a slightly tenuous but valid reason for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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