Illegal Lock Knife?

[Tobyb525]

I have a 3" lock for skinning that we bought at debenhams I think

[Guest]

Exactly what is wrong with having a knife on you as long as you are not doing anyone any harm or not assaulting anyone?

 

"I am sorry officer I do not have a good reason for having my fists with me today. I believe I should have left them at home. My bad. "

Edited August 12, 2009 by Guest

[MC]

If you have a reason to have it on you then nothing is wrong. However why would you want to carry a knife in Tescos? Or while you went to pick the kids up from school?

 

If it is a tool of your trade or you are hunting,shooting or fishing then there is no issue.

 

Having one in your pocket just because you feel like it is not on.

[Guest]

Not saying I would carry a knife or do carry a knife for anything bad but for example, as dan cooke says he is in a countryside so he carries a knife around a lot since it can be a very useful tool, now if police stopped him, he would not have "good reason" to carry one. In his own words what is he going to tell the police: Sorry I am carrying it in case I have to slash some random deer's throat in case it gets run over. However I am sure that he would mind being labeled a criminal and booked simply for having a knife in his possession.

[MC]

Would you mind being booked for driving over 70 MPH on a motorway? Or getting a parking ticket for parking on a double yellow line? or riding your bike without lights after dark?

 

If you have a knife on you without a valid reason then you are breaking the law. Now I am not arguing that this is right, wrong or indifferent, I alway have a knife or 3 in my car at any one time. Now if I was stopped by the police and they found one (which would be good as I am forever losing them) then I would have to explain why I had one. If I was off shopping then that may be difficult.

 

However if I was off to feed my ponds or going shooting or fishing then there is your valid reason. I try hard to remember to take it out of my pocket if I do pop into a shop or whatever but that doesn't always happen.

 

There is loads of items in my car that could be used as offensive weapons but they aren't. I suppose it depends on you and what reason you give.

 

If I was a copper and someone said to me that they carried a knife in case they had to dispatch a runover deer that I would book them for not having a little bit of creativity in their imagination.

[al4x]

in the real world if he had it in the car boot say in a tool box then there is unlikely to be an issue, its a lot of what ifs at the moment how many of us have had our vehicles searched by plod looking for knives?

As MC says taking a knife shooting is fine carry one on the street as part of your day to day wear and you do deserve banging up as there is no reason for it. I live in the countryside and I don't need to carry one everywhere. I do have a few things in my truck that would deal with a deer if need be.

[danccooke]

Actually a knife in tesco is useful, especially if you don't like the stalk on the brocolli as they seem to stack it with more and more stalk on it these days so you are paying for bits you are going to throw away. slice of the stalk back into basket and bag the florrettes. more brocolli for your money.

 

however i have only ever thought of this

 

however i do agree rules are rules and i try to stick to them even if we think they are daft, and remove the need for conscious thought.

Edited August 12, 2009 by danccooke

[MC]

Dan,

 

Why stop at the broccoli? You could always go and get a knife from the kitchen department. Therefore cutting out the risk of taking your own in the shop. You could always peel the spuds before you buy them as well.

 

The list is endless, top and tail the carrots, parsnips etc. You could even pick all the grapes off the stalks or remove the stones from peaches and plums.

[Guest]

"however i do agree rules are rules and i try to stick to them even if we think they are daft, and remove the need for conscious thought."

 

Is that implying that you want to be a robot only doing what you are told?

[danccooke]

damn hadn't thought of them, surely peeled oranges would be vastly cheaper

 

appologies if the humour was lost on my last post, it was typed with a smile on my face.

 

What I am saying is, I carry a knife when shooting and fishing. I have a leatherman tool on my belt at work and often stop for a beer on the way home. I always have a knife plus other tools in the car.

 

I try not to break the law and the chances of me being stopped when walking the dog is slim, however if i were to be stopped I might have a hard time explaining and as such am quite possibly breaking the law and as such in the wrong. We don't have to agree with laws, just try to abide them.

 

The tesco comment was bad placed humour (it's been a long day)

 

 

Koz, my comment means, I think some rules are only created because those who make the rules don't think we can actually use our own brains, and as such remove the need for conscious thought. Not that i want that, but that is what happens.

 

Many many laws and rules are put in, that take the place of sensible thought for the average person. I know not to stab someone, i don't need someone to say don't carry a knife just in case you want to stab someone.

likewise i don't need someone to tell me I can't buy more than two packets or paracetomol in case i am going to top myself. Not that I might want some for home, work and the car.

 

i could rant all day but that is not the point. what i am meaning to say is, I try to stick to all rules even if i don't agreee with them

Edited August 12, 2009 by danccooke

[mossy835]

Fair enough on the "good reason" thing but a carpet fitter? what a load of tosh! just another step towards nanny state....

 

 

 

we have all ways been a nanny state.

[MC]

Are you a reincarnated James Dean? after all wasn't he the original rebel without a cause?

 

I would think that what Dan means is he is a normal law abiding citizen who does his best not to break the law. Rather than being an immature adolescent who thinks it is "Hard" to carry a blade.

 

You say doing what you are told as if your mother has told you to wash your hands before dinner, Not obeying the laws of the land whether you agree with them or not.

[toka_shigazu]

Toka

 

I was not aware that the 3" rule for folding penknives had been repealed. In fact I challenge you to find the legislation that says so. It is right to say that any lock knife with a blade of any length is a bladed article under s 139 Criminal Justice Act by virtue of the stated case and that to possess one in a public place unless a person has good reason or lawful authority is an offence. But you can still possess a folding pocket knife (less than 3 inches), which is not a lock knife, in a public place provided it is not intended as an offensive weapon.

 

P

 

hi... found this.....

 

CARRYING KNIVES

The British Association for Shooting and Conservation Ltd,

Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham LL12 0HL

Tel: 01244 573000 Fax: 01244 573013

 

The use and carrying of Knives

(Criminal Justice Act 1988 & Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006)

It is now ILLEGAL to have any sharply pointed or bladed instrument in your possession, in a

public place without good reason or lawful authority. (See below RE: folding pocket knives)

 

A public place is anywhere that the public has, or is permitted to have access to, even if they must

pay to do so. This not only covers areas such as roads and highways, shops, and pubs but also less

obvious areas. This is important to realise for those working or spending leisure time in the

countryside, as public footpaths or other rights of way come under the definition of a public place.

Estate land where the public may have access is also a public place even if it is privately owned.

 

Your car or other vehicle is also classed as a public place whilst on the highway, and the police

now have search and seize powers without warrant with respect to knives.

Good reason for carrying a knife may be shown by occupation as a farmer, estate manager,

recreational stalker, gameshooter, angler or anyone else who has reasonable grounds for expecting

to need a knife whilst pursuing a lawful activity.

 

Leaving a knife in the car, or in your pocket for when you next go shooting, or forgetting that it is

there, is NOT a defence.

Carrying a knife in public must be in connection with the activity for which it is needed; going into

a shop with a knife in your pocket if you are returning from or going to a place where you farm,

fish or shoot etc. would constitute good reason.

 

There is an exemption in law for folding pocket knives. These must have cutting edges of less than

three inches and blades which do not lock. However when pocket knives of this type are carried

for example in a nightclub, at a school or to a football match they are likely to be viewed as

offensive weapons even though the actual knife isn’t an offensive weapon in itself.

 

There is a further exemption for the carrying of knives as part of either a national costume (such as

the Scottish Skean Dhu) or as part of a religious obligation (the Sikh Kirpan).

Offences under Section 139 are trialable in both Magistrates’ and the Crown Court.

 

Penalties onconviction in the Magistrates’ Court are a maximum of six months imprisonment, a maximum fine

of £5,000 or both. In the Crown Court, penalties are a maximum of two years imprisonment, a

maximum fine of £5,000 or both.

 

 

....basically it is saying that it may not be a knife, under the legislation regarding fixed blade, but it can still be considered an offensive weapon so you may still be arrested if you dont have good reason.

 

an example the other way was a male at 3am on a sunday who was outside his home [public place] brandishing 2 kitchen knives [there was more to it as well but..] he was arrested and at court stated he and his family were about to sit down to a sunday roast when he heard someone knocking on his door and went outside to check, still carrying the knives. the court found him not guilty of possessing an offensive weapon [or two] as to them that was good reason!!:look: gave me a laugh anyway....crazy??!!

[palombier]

Toka

 

That a knife is 'likely to be viewed ' etc. as an offensive weapon has nothing to do with s139 CJA bladed articles and penknives with blades less than 3 inches but all to do with S1 Prevention of Crime Act 1953, offensive weapons, a subtle difference. So my post still stands. Sorry but I won't be around to continue the argument (if any)as away on business.

 

regards

 

P

[toka_shigazu]

P...i think the important thing that people need to understand is that even if they have a folding knife with a blade under 3" they are still liable to be arrested and dealt with for posession of an offensive weapon if they can't fully justify having it on them. unfortunately there are some officers out there who would arrest them and put them infront of the court, rather than use their own judgement [common sense] at the material time, to determine if they did indeed have reasonable grounds.

i dont think anyone on here would want to end up being there...especially if it endangers an FAC or SGC.

 

....no argument here on that , just a different perspective regarding the legislation covering weapons/knives

[hiho]

when i go shooting i have a buck sheath knife i always take with me, the local plod exercises their dogs down one of the lanes in the fields near where i shoot, they have never said anything to me about it

proberly because he`s of duty and no`s your going shooting

[Guest]

There you have from the person that works with the police. You cannot carry anything with you that may be deemed offensive. If you have a boxcutter on you it is clear you are a jihadi terrorist.

 

"I try not to break the law and the chances of me being stopped when walking the dog is slim, however if i were to be stopped I might have a hard time explaining and as such am quite possibly breaking the law and as such in the wrong. We don't have to agree with laws, just try to abide them."

 

Little hint dan cooke: DO NOT admit to breaking the law on a forum whre there is probably a lot of police presence. That applies of course for any forum but especially this one.

[danccooke]

There you have from the person that works with the police. You cannot carry anything with you that may be deemed offensive. If you have a boxcutter on you it is clear you are a jihadi terrorist.

 

"I try not to break the law and the chances of me being stopped when walking the dog is slim, however if i were to be stopped I might have a hard time explaining and as such am quite possibly breaking the law and as such in the wrong. We don't have to agree with laws, just try to abide them."

 

Little hint dan cooke: DO NOT admit to breaking the law on a forum whre there is probably a lot of police presence. That applies of course for any forum but especially this one.

 

God damn you are anal, I never said I am breaking the law I said "possibly" or arguably depending on the copper that happens to be in the middle of the forest and whether or not on that particular walk i have cut any withies, a stick, or been running around threatening ramblers with a 15" Machete.

I guess there is going to be a police sting mission out now to catch me out an about, but now I am scared to even unload the car because that walk from the car on the drive to the garage will be a public place and at that time i will have no valid reason for having the knife on me and i might get pounced on by the old bill hiding round the front of the truck?

I know what the law states and as I said I do my best to abide by it. If I go out for a walk with the plan of cutting myself a new stick whilst I am out, that is a valid reason, however if I don't find a suitable branch to cut on my return have I broken the law as I didn't actually use the knife for the purpose I took it out?

 

I had best not mention the bales of cocaine in the basement, oh but I don't have a basement. Merd now I am going to have the drug squad searching the house.

[MC]

God damn you are anal, I never said I am breaking the law I said "possibly" or arguably depending on the copper that happens to be in the middle of the forest and whether or not on that particular walk i have cut any withies, a stick, or been running around threatening ramblers with a 15" Machete.

I guess there is going to be a police sting mission out now to catch me out an about, but now I am scared to even unload the car because that walk from the car on the drive to the garage will be a public place and at that time i will have no valid reason for having the knife on me and i might get pounced on by the old bill hiding round the front of the truck?

I know what the law states and as I said I do my best to abide by it. If I go out for a walk with the plan of cutting myself a new stick whilst I am out, that is a valid reason, however if I don't find a suitable branch to cut on my return have I broken the law as I didn't actually use the knife for the purpose I took it out?

 

I had best not mention the bales of cocaine in the basement, oh but I don't have a basement. Merd now I am going to have the drug squad searching the house.

 

 

Nice one Dan,

 

I am glad to see that you are taking this as seriously as me. I had a 4" bladed opinel knife on me last night when I was clay shooting. No real reason for it other than I used it for opening a slab of cartridges. I would have used a safety box opening tool, but I didn't have one.

 

Sorry got to go the anti terrorism squad have just kicked my door in.

[danccooke]

They are nasty those clays, I had one of them attack me, so a knife for finishing them off at close range might be acceptable. However I always struggle to get the remains in the game carrier

[jayward]

i have a Stanley bladed lock knife its a Gerber Superknife in fact i have a few and if i put on my work pants then i clip the knife to a pocket every time !

it looks like this

one i have had for a good 10yr and the others are newer and a little less well made

the old one is stainless and is invaluable as you cant get em anymore

So it may be that im breaking the law but having said that i also have in the van a whole array of items a positive is it where to be viewed that way !!!

Edited August 13, 2009 by jayward

[paul65]

P...i think the important thing that people need to understand is that even if they have a folding knife with a blade under 3" they are still liable to be arrested and dealt with for posession of an offensive weapon if they can't fully justify having it on them.

 

That's not true. You don't have to justify having a sub 3" non-locking knife, eg a Swiss Army Knife. You are legally entitled to carry one. If you are pulled by the Police and questioned about why you have a Swiss Army Knife, don't try to come up with an excuse, tell them politely you are legally entitled to carry it. It would be down to the Police to prove that you were using it in such a manner as to make it an offensive weapon.

[Marley29]

That's not true. You don't have to justify having a sub 3" non-locking knife, eg a Swiss Army Knife. You are legally entitled to carry one. If you are pulled by the Police and questioned about why you have a Swiss Army Knife, don't try to come up with an excuse, tell them politely you are legally entitled to carry it. It would be down to the Police to prove that you were using it in such a manner as to make it an offensive weapon.

 

You are right in what you say it would be down to the police to prove your guilt however, I personally would way up the circumstances. Officers don't generally search people unless there is a valid reason to do so. If I stopped a group of lads out in a town centre and one of them had a swiss army knife with a blade less than 3 inches which doesn't lock, he would still be coming in

You could still be dealt with for posessing a Bladed or sharply pointed item which is a different offence.

 

If however he had a bag full of fishing tackle then things would be different.

 

Any blade that locks, regardless of blade length can be classed as an offensive weapon

[al4x]

personally I'm happy for any of the plod to pull people for carrying any knife while out on the town whatever length blade. If it was up to me they'd take them round the corner give them a bit of a smack about take the knife and leave it at that but I guess we can't have that kind of justice much as it would sort a few of our problems out

[rabbithunter2008]

Just because I'm very messy and put things down lots and miss place them all the time!

I'm going to leave a spinning rod in the car.

So when i leave my knife in the car by mistake one day old bill can't do any thing!!