MM Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Anybody who shoots hares with an air rifle is an absolute nosher. Anybody who can't discern between a rabbit and a hare at airgun ranges should quit shooting. Use enough gun. Yes, but then again, you are a farmer Baldrick. Chill ya boots, and cut some corn or something, you sound like my wife. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronster Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 here we go again....hope this helps using a 12ft air rifle at 25 yards will have an impact of 462fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.67 inch at 30 yards will have an impact of 453fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.59 inch at 40 yards will have an impact of 434fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.44 inch this is taking he was using 20 grain pellets in .22.now we know he could have identified his quarry better but lets be honest what else looks like rabbits or hare...in my opinion this lad has done nothing wrong and privided he was happy in taking the shot he would have had ample power in dropping the hare unless some one out there knows of hares with heads bigger than 7 inch from eye to eye think it is about time people stopped jumping on theire high horses all the time and offered encouragement instead of slating people.....after all were all learning all the time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 MM, the fact that I'm a farmer is immaterial. What's probably more relevant is that I have a degree of respect for what I shoot at, and I also like to avoid fine margins for error. Ronster, if you knew anything about wound ballistics and the variables one encounters when shooting in the real world, you'd appreciate that the figures you quoted are meaningless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronster Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 why ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveK Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Oh, my, god. Yet another "Lets go to a stoning" topic. He shot an animal with big ears which was either a hare or a rabbit. Not a crime is it? He did identify that it wasn't a dog or a badger or Mrs Slocums pussy. What's wrong with shooting a hare with an air rifle. Don't many of you bang on about shot placement? What about the quarry list for airguns. Is that something published by Natural England or is it an advisory from them such as BASC? Not allowed to shoot game with an airrifle? A hare on enclosed land is arbitrarily classable as a pest. Baldrick, being a farmer and having respect for your quarry doesn't make you right or him wrong Now stop being so anal and leave the lad alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vectra26 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 At the limits of airgun range a hare will be a hard animal to kill cleanly. I feel moved to post as I cannot ever imagine that an air rifle is the right tool for a Hare. Out of respect for a fabulous animal I would NEVER shoot a Hare with an Airgun and I would sincerely hope the vast majority on here are of the same view or heaven help us all. I couldn't agree more with the above posts. Although a correctly placed headshot would be sufficient, airguns are extremely limited in their range, and shooting a hare that size with a 12ft/lb gun is a bit wrong IMO. But perhaps the most worrying thing here is that the shooter assumed what his target was, instead of being certain. And on a side note, how the heck do you mistake a humongous hare for a rabbit?! Even if only the head was in view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Not allowed to shoot game with an airrifle? A hare on enclosed land is arbitrarily classable as a pest. Baldrick, being a farmer and having respect for your quarry doesn't make you right or him wrong Now stop being so anal and leave the lad alone. Incorrect. Hares are classed as ground game at all times, and not as pests. But perhaps the most worrying thing here is that the shooter assumed what his target was, instead of being certain. And on a side note, how the heck do you mistake a humongous hare for a rabbit?! Even if only the head was in view. By assuming that live-quarry shooting is something you can pick up as you go along, or learn from the pages of Airgun World? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Yes, but then again, you are a farmer Baldrick. Chill ya boots, and cut some corn or something, you sound like my wife. Sorry to use you as an example MM, but needs must. There are many people here who are steeped in shooting, having had been given a gun at an early age and educated about what may and may not, through experience, kill an animal cleanly. Therefore when someone posts something on a public forum that they know is questionable, they are then called into question. My point is, if the shot was a bad one and the creature screamed off into the wild blue yonder would we hear about it ?? No we wouldn`t as the person would be beside themself, however by publishing it here it seems that some condone the use of airguns, and to some that will include all airguns, even the sub 12 ftlbs. ones, A guy on pigeonwatch shot a hare(sic) and I shot at one and it ran off squeling !what am I doing wrong ? Simplistic but but as we are on a publicly accessible forum please think first and find out all the laws and acceptible practices are before you get ban these brilliant guns from those of us who have had them for nearly 40 years.....or more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 here we go again....hope this helpsusing a 12ft air rifle at 25 yards will have an impact of 462fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.67 inch at 30 yards will have an impact of 453fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.59 inch at 40 yards will have an impact of 434fps giving a wound channel depth of 3.44 inch this is taking he was using 20 grain pellets in .22.now we know he could have identified his quarry better but lets be honest what else looks like rabbits or hare...in my opinion this lad has done nothing wrong and privided he was happy in taking the shot he would have had ample power in dropping the hare unless some one out there knows of hares with heads bigger than 7 inch from eye to eye think it is about time people stopped jumping on theire high horses all the time and offered encouragement instead of slating people.....after all were all learning all the time why ? You speak of wound channels like shooting is an exact science - it is not. A wound channel in what medium? Ballistic gelatine? Flesh? Flesh and bone? Flesh and bone covered in thick fur? Is the wound channel through muscle, the chest cavity or straight into bone? What I am getting at is that the variables are almost endless. You cannot think 'it's OK, I know this pellet will penetrate 3.59" at 30 yards'. That is very flawed logic, and shoddy practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronster Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 You speak of wound channels like shooting is an exact science - it is not. A wound channel in what medium? Ballistic gelatine? Flesh? Flesh and bone? Flesh and bone covered in thick fur? Is the wound channel through muscle, the chest cavity or straight into bone? What I am getting at is that the variables are almost endless. You cannot think 'it's OK, I know this pellet will penetrate 3.59" at 30 yards'. That is very flawed logic, and shoddy practice. yes the variables are endless but a headshot at that range isn't a problem unles you misplace the pellet but that can happen with any firearm ...you miss the target you wound the animal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 yes the variables are endless but a headshot at that range isn't a problem unles you misplace the pellet but that can happen with any firearm ...you miss the target you wound the animal Missing the intended POI by 0.5" with an .22 airgun pellet may cause a wound and a lingering death. Miss that same POI by 0.5" with a 55gr V-Max doing 3,800fps at the muzzle? The chances of an instantaneous death are somewhat higher. Likewise, a shotgun gives significantly more reassurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) Airguns are not ''enough gun'' to to kill a hare http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8220735.stm Edited August 25, 2009 by chrispti Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Airguns are not ''enough gun'' to to kill a hare http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8220735.stm I think you're comparing apples with pairs there, in a rather macabre way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 ANY SHOOTER WITH A PCP AIR RIFEL AND GOOD SCOPE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE O.5 INCH GROUPS 25 YRDS. AN AIRGUN HAS ENOUGH POWER TO KILL A HAIR IF YOU SHOOT IT THROUGHT THE BRAIN. END OF STORY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ronster Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 top and bottom of it is there is a tool for every job but there are also many other tools that will do that job......and his tool did the job we all use a shotgun to shoot pigeons as this is the tool to use but we all know we don't always place the shot correctly hence the bird might get winged.....which hasn't been killed cleanly hence the bird is suffering....and how many have winged a bird and can't retreive it to kill it by either falling into brambles or onto other land we don't have access to....the guy killed the hare cleanly so JOBS A GUD UN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Airguns are not ''enough gun'' to to kill a hare http://forums.pigeonwatch.co.uk/forums/ind...showtopic=97171 If everyone was killed by a hit from an airgun pellet then you would get 100% agreement, however a slip in the bathtub or a trip in the garden will kill people, but it will never be humane. By pushing this arguement you will get experienced people who will foresake their better judgement and when asked they will say "Yes, ban airguns, I tried to tell them but no-one listened"......... and would you blame them ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrispti Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 The point I was making was that I think some people underestimate modern day airguns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
henry d Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 ANY SHOOTER WITH A PCP AIR RIFEL AND GOOD SCOPE SHOULD BE ABLE TO HAVE O.5 INCH GROUPS 25 YRDS. AN AIRGUN HAS ENOUGH POWER TO KILL A HAIR IF YOU SHOOT IT THROUGHT THE BRAIN. END OF STORY. Not good enough, some shooters will never have the feel for a trigger or the follow through to kill bigger prey never mind a small animal as a HARE ! Clip the jaw and it will run off and die through starvation, nick the head and you will again have it run off in agony, bust it`s nose and again it is off in agony. Using a .17hmr/.22rf/.22cf or a shotty with 4-5 `s will give better results and that comes from experience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttalbot09 Posted August 25, 2009 Author Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Not good enough, some shooters will never have the feel for a trigger or the follow through to kill bigger prey never mind a small animal as a HARE ! Clip the jaw and it will run off and die through starvation, nick the head and you will again have it run off in agony, bust it`s nose and again it is off in agony. Using a .17hmr/.22rf/.22cf or a shotty with 4-5 `s will give better results and that comes from experience. iv witnesseed rabbits hit the the jaw with 17s and they get down the warren iv also witnessed a mate of mine hit a hare with a 20bore which idont understand about shotguns so i dont know what that means just know he said thats what it is and it was screaming like a baby because it was hit in the back legs dogs didnt do a good job either. really upsetting to see. im happy mine didnt feel a thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ryantidgwell Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 i dont agree with the comment about if you dont no your quarry you should not be shooting , a hare and rabbit is easy to mistake in long grass , thats just like saying you shoot a jackdaw but you thought it was a rook should they stop shooting ? as they look alike big time , at the end of the day it died did not go off wounded job done , People on here are too quick to jump in on people , i wonder how many of you have hit stuff what have run off , how many pigeons have you cliped with the shot gun that have carried on flying ? gets a bit boring seeing people slagging of others all the time ! you must be all so perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Traztaz Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 OOOOOOOOOOOOO I do like a good debate, if shooting hares is Ok with an air rifle then I am off out tonight to go and see if a head shot with my 22 rimmy is Ok on Red Stags...............................bet it kills it at 20 yards with a head shot. See the point fellows? Use the right gun for the right job, oh and learn to identify your quarry, a hare looks about as much like a rabbit as a basset hound does, long ears for identification, ****. Try the black tips, the eyes, the difference in coat, hares are hairy!! Now, wheres that 22, subsonics or yellow jackets thats the question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aaron airgunner Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Not good enough, some shooters will never have the feel for a trigger or the follow through to kill bigger prey never mind a small animal as a HARE ! Clip the jaw and it will run off and die through starvation, nick the head and you will again have it run off in agony, bust it`s nose and again it is off in agony. Using a .17hmr/.22rf/.22cf or a shotty with 4-5 `s will give better results and that comes from experience. cilp the jaw with a bloody .22lr and it will run off to die of starvation, i know most pepole with pcp air rifels can get 1 hole groups. everybody gets a wound shot now and again, its unavoidable. a shot through the head is not hard with an airgun so i dont see the point your trying to make. its not down to the gun its down to the shooters accuracy and he seems to be accurate enough as he got a perfect headshot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baldrick Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 (edited) i dont agree with the comment about if you dont no your quarry you should not be shooting , a hare and rabbit is easy to mistake in long grass , thats just like saying you shoot a jackdaw but you thought it was a rook should they stop shooting ? as they look alike big time , at the end of the day it died did not go off wounded job done , People on here are too quick to jump in on people , i wonder how many of you have hit stuff what have run off , how many pigeons have you cliped with the shot gun that have carried on flying ? gets a bit boring seeing people slagging of others all the time ! you must be all so perfect! Nobody is perfect. You've failed to grasp the point that some of us on this thread have been trying to make: safe and ethical shooting is about managing risk. When I go shooting, I do all I can to swing the odds in my favour. That means not starting out with a ridiculously limiting handicap, i.e. trying to kill an animal the size of a Cocker spaniel, with a 12ft/lb air rifle, or taking a .243 out when looking for one-tonne Cape buffalo. What happens if you don't kill it with the first shot and it limps off, out of range of your air rifle? I wing as many birds as any fairly skilled Shot does, but by shooting at what is within my capabilities, wielding an appropriate gun, and using a dog (or a small child) to retrieve any runners, I am at least trying my hardest to minimise said risks. Edited August 25, 2009 by Baldrick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NICK76 Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 Nobody is perfect. You've failed to grasp the point that some of us on this thread have been trying to make: safe and ethical shooting is about managing risk. When I go shooting, I do all I can to swing the odds in my favour. That means not starting out with a ridiculously limiting handicap, i.e. trying to kill an animal the size of a Cocker spaniel, with a 12ft/lb air rifle, or taking a .243 out when looking for one-tonne Cape buffalo. What happens if you don't kill it with the first shot and it limps off, out of range of your air rifle? I wing as many birds as any fairly skilled Shot does, but by shooting at what is within my capabilities, wielding an appropriate gun, and using a dog (or a small child) to retrieve any runners, I am at least trying my hardest to minimise said risks. But by all accounts, the lad didn't go out to shoot a hare with his air rifle,his intended quarry was rabbits, he thought there was a larger rabbit grazing in long grass, he was within the range capabilites of his airgun and he could get a head shot. This obviously turned out to be a hare!!! he believed he was also shooting within his capabilties and was wielding an appropiate gun for his intended quarry. Like you said Baldrick, no one is perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evil Elvis Posted August 25, 2009 Report Share Posted August 25, 2009 I have shot many hares with air rifles, both 12ftlbs and fac, effectivley and humanely, i have NEVER had a runner!! However, I have been within lethal range and can easily distinguish between a hare and a rabbit through the scope on my theoben WHEN CLOSE ENOUGH TO KILL IT!!. If you were close enough you should have been able to tell WETHER IT IS A HARE OR A RABBIT!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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