wildgoose1uk

You really do get what you pay for but whether the european glass is worth the premium really depends on the end user. My wife & I have Swaro and Kowa scopes for birding, we both have Nikon Bins and my riflescopes are both Nikko Sterling. I owned a pair of Hawke bins for two weeks! The Swaro really is yards ahead of all the rest. I really got the Kowa for range work but then stopped using open sights so have not used it too many times! I traded in the Hawkes for the Nikons after two weeks because they were hopeless. The two riflescopes perform well outside in good weather. One struggles on the range in poor weatherat 300m, the other struggles on an indoor 22 range in any weather.... The long and short of it is that if all your use will be in good visibility then it matters much less what you choose. The main reason we went for the Swaro was that we wanted a quality scope that we would not want to trade in in a few years and the eye relief on the Nikon just didn't work for us. Optically there was less difference. Whether you buy Japanese or European the main time the price difference shows is in poor visibility, either as the light is going or in poor weather and that really is what you are paying for... the ability to still see the target and get a shot off as disk approaches or in poor visability. wg

Depends on who you talk to or which official document you are reading............

If you think it ok for your accountant to complete your tax return amidst a throng of thousands at a shooting show then you deserve each other

Y'know, I can't help thinking that I have contributed a lot to the direction this thread has taken in recent days. That's a shame. You see, I really don't need many or any of the other services BASC provides...... I do like the magazine though. All I really want to do is to support a shooting organisation. This is a membership organisation, a lobbying organisation, an organisation that is wellplaced to do those things. As for me? What benefit do i get from BASC? Directly .... none. 1. I have my own insurance arrangements; 2. The farmer owns and runs the shoot so if there was ever a problem it seems unlikely that BASC would convince the farmer to negotiate with himself; 3. I don't stalk; 4. I don't have dogs; 5. Can't remember all the other member benefits but it seems I have survived this long without them that I doubt I need them. All I really want to do is to support BASC because I think they are wellplaced to do a fine job in terms of lobbying (much like the NRA but different). Because I want to do this and because it is better for me to pay in smaller amounts it seems I have to pay more than all the others who pay annually..... There is no contractual arrangement with BASC for provision of personal aervices like there is with the car insurance analogy provided earlier. In any case the fee there is interest on a loan and not a charge for a dd. Yes.... I was not told about the extra charges for dd when I signed up Yes.... I think the 50p charge per dd payment is on the form but hidden near the bottom beside the shoot captain's section which I confess I did not read. Do these two things matter to me?..... not really. I have been involved in several charities which show verying degrees of professionalism so I have a different tolerance level for them. I know David will tell me that BASC is not a charity btu I class it in pretty much the same group for my purposes. What really gets my goat here is that I want to join a body that I will get little in return for other than the lobbying I mentioned earlier which is not so much a personal benefit as a long term group benefit and it seems that not only must I pay more to spread the cost but I must pay more than double what the bank charges to process the dd. Not only that but the basc rep here really seems less than interested in people who have views that do not agree with his. Will I continue my basc memebership .......... I honestly do not know at this stage. They do a lot of good work but I think they are just taking the **** by charging 50p per payment. Like I say it is a good magazine though.

I do not think the insurance analogy is valid. With insurance you are buying a service. With BASC, NRA, SACS, NGO, SGO subs you are choosing to give an organisation your money so they can campaign. We may well benefit from the end result or we may not depending on the effectiveness of the organisation chosen and its input on your type of shooting. We cannot instruct BASC on how to spend the membership fee. They may or may not canvass the membership for opinion but at the end of the day I cannot say here is my money and this is what I want you to spend it on. What we are saying is that I think BASC is a worthy cause and deserving of my dosh. There is no contractual obligation for BASC to provide us with anything specific for our money. Don't get me wrong, I do think BASC is a worthy cause but I already have NRA, RSPB and soon to be BTO membership. I think the main thing BASC will achieve with this penalty fee is to alienate a portion of existing membership and possible future members. I understand that David is busy and thinks it a waste of his time to research other membership organisations that charge fees for paying by dd...... but surely someone at BASC would have doen the research before maiking the decision so it should quite literally be as easy as opening the right file on the network.

Interesting thought but I doubt the interest lost would amount to anything material, particularly since they are spending the dosh on campaigning so are unlikely to be able to get any decent interest rates on term deposits.

true, but only initially and then only if all the cash was budgeted to be spent within a quick timeframe.

It just doesn't make sense to me. Offering dd not only makes it easier on the member but it also encourages new recruits to join AND makes cashflow more predictable over the year. Not only that but consider the saving in not having to send out multiple renewal reminders and then possibly follow up so as not to lose members. People who pay by dd don't think about it. If they are happy they just let it roll on. Lemmee see: 1. Encourage new members; 2. Reduction in cost of renewals; 3. Reduction in admin costs of credit card payments; 4. Predicatable cashflow; 5. Be seen as forward thinking and willing to help memebers in a recession; 6. Ability to redeply resources no longer needed in chasing renewals Loads more I am sure....... but what would I know..... I am only an accountant.

Fair enough..... or don't pay at all and join one of the other campaigning organisations.

Agreed ... I didn't spot that till after I posted but if you can show me any bank that charges more than 22p for a direct debit I will be very surprised.... but will happily learn.

I don't think it is petty. It is all over BASC paperwork that direct debit is their preferred method of payment but it is not until you reach the second last screen on joining online that you are told that you will be penalised financially for using their preferred method of payment. At the shooting show I was asked if I wanted to pay by dd or in full. I opted for dd. At no point was it explained to me that this method would incur extra charges. To be perfectly honest most business bank accounts charge between zero and 18p for receiving money by direct debit so for ten payments it would cost at most £1.80. To be honest I am surprised we are even having this conversation. This is a membership organisation on a recruitment drive ....... Can't believe they are trying to charge for dd's. I asked earlier if David could supply details of any other memberhsip organisation penalising their members for paying for dd..... still waiting for a reply.

Hi David: can you tell me which Natwest business account charges 40p for a direct debit?

I have just looked at the form I was given at the show. Apparently I am paying 10 monthly payments by debit card. In any case if each t/a is charged at 50p and there are 10 t/a's where in earth does £4 come from?

The RSPB: To be honest I have never heard of people getting charged extra to pay by direct debit. I have had a quick look at the Natwest business account charges on their website and cannt see anything that would make it come close to £0.50 per dd claimed. It seems very high for a dd charge and is double what we were charged for debit cards in my last job. Do we expect you to swallow the charges for dd? In a word yes. It gains you more members and you do not have to chase them for renewal each year. It also gives you steady predictable income every month so yo uare betetr able to forecast your cashflow. Strewth! Surely your marketing bods must realise that the benefits of this scheme far outweigh the charges? I would really like to know where the £0.50 figure comes from. I suspect you have outsourced the collection of the dd's to an external organisation. David: Can you name any other campaigning organisations that charge you extra to pay by direct debit? In fact just any other organisation at all will do. Also why was it not made clear to me when I signed up?

and in gaining new ones.