Beds Posted October 1, 2009 Report Share Posted October 1, 2009 Dear all, I have a fabulous retriever named Roxy, who when using dummies is absoloutly fabulous and retrieves perfectly in any situation, water, rough cover, hidden etc etc. Now the bad bit!!! She finds every bird i shoot in rough or open land but will she bring to me, will she hell. Off water not a problem straight back to me. She sometimes bolts after a shot, so i know i have alittle more work here to make her a little more steady, i'm sure that will come in time. As soon as she gets it on land she just wants to play with it and sometimes eats the breast/feathers. When i finally get her to come back she knows she has done wrong as she is almost crawling on her belly or walking behind me. I am trying to train more with an odd bird or two on the back yard and when she brings it back without playing with it she gets a treat, if i could could just get her to bring it back this way, in the feild i could reduce the treats over time. 99% of the time she brings it straight back when on the back yard. I'm sure there is a wealth of knowlegde on this forum that can help me. Anyone got any constructive advise please. Many Thanks in advamce Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted October 2, 2009 Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 May be advice you won't want to acknowledge. You need more obedience in the dog and less treats. Sixteen months old is way outgrown for treating and even if you succeed, with treats as the reward you're not training the dog, it's training you. A common misperception is that the Yanks introduce pups to game at an ungodly young age to get them "birdy"--i.e., to build desire for both retrieving and flushing. That's not the rationale at all--especially the retrieving end of it. Early introduction to game perpetuates a pup's natural tendencies, one of which often is retrieving to hand. They're not all born retrieving to hand, but many are. I've not had one yet, retriever or spaniel, that didn't--and I mean from the first bird or bunny they've gotten their gob around. So you give them repetitions with game and enable them to act on those natural tendencies of recalling to you even without a recall *from* you. But for recalling, you start them with a jolly "Here pup! Here! Here pup!" and concommitant toot-toot-toot of the "come-in whistle." What's the bother here? As pups their mouths are way too small to mangle game, much less eat it, and besides, you're always in proximity should something start to go awry. So that's the retrieving end--making use of good mouth habits that have been bred for generation after generation. The obedience thing is also repetition and is cultivated with treats initially and up to about three months but that usually comes to a halt when obedience is twinned with retrieving of game (or steadiness to flushing). The retrieve and/or flush are more than enough reward and a gundog with proper breeding lives for game not to get a liver titbit spat at it. Unfortunately you're a little past the formative time for your dog. Nominally it may still be a pup, but at 16 months, you're dealing with a full-sized animal that is in its restless adolescence. So you're in need of a long lead and will have to physically remind the dog that the retrieve belongs to you and is only in the dog's temporary possession as courier, or carrier. Not a whole lot more you can do, and don't even think about using an e-collar for obtaining this kind of compliance. Until you do, this As soon as she gets it on land she just wants to play with it and sometimes eats the breast/feathers. When i finally get her to come back she knows she has done wrong as she is almost crawling on her belly or walking behind me. will keep devolving till eventually the dog won't return at all. And a cowering dog at heel is one of the most unpleasant sights amongst gundogs, second only to a dog that's holding a retrieve like a balloon filled with castor oil--one slip of an incisor and holy terror breaks loose. That's a dog retrieving against its will and desire, and that only happens when you've given them too much stick in an untimely way about not bringing a bird or bunny back to you. Good luck, you've got a battle on your hands but it's winnable if you work at it in a way that makes it play for the dog. Long line included--you've got to congratulate the dog for every incoming step and let it know what a "good dog" it's behaving as in retrieving for you. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beds Posted October 2, 2009 Author Report Share Posted October 2, 2009 Many Thanks for the advise, This confirms my thoughts i got the dog at 8 month old and it has been very very timid/nervous from the off. I will endeviour to continue the training and make it fun. We have been out tonight and she has retreaved 4 placed birds and i have fired the shotgun in the direction of the palced bird and sent her for it and she has brought everyone back. Which i'm happy to say is a start. I will continue in this manner for a couple of weeks maintianing the fun factor and encouragment and then try the real deal in a couple of weeks time. Again many Thanks for your responce, not the best news i wanted to hear, but i suppose the truth of the matter. Thanks Andy. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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