ODG

Hi all... I've got two Welsh Terrier bitches, both of whom I breed, but have never been working dogs, just pets. They are 4 and 5 years old. Neither are gunshy and although both are lead trained, they are not so great off-lead! (Not their fault - I never really put a lot of effort into off-lead training the first bitch when she was a pup, and the other I got at 2yrs old) Lily (4) is the least trained. She's getting better on-lead but off lead will chase birds and follow other people, and has even crossed roads! When I take her to the beach she can only go off-lead where we are away from the slipway and steps up to the road, and I can't let her off in woodland at all. Cei (5) is pretty good. Great on-lead and pretty good off-lead she's fine on the beach, but in woodland she'll disappear and has stayed missing for an hour or more in the past. I have considered starting to train one or both bitches either for deer tracking (they have great noses) or for flushing game, but wondered if it's now too late? Another option would be to keep one of the pups from the next litter or two and train that instead. Does anyone know of any good bok or dvd resources for training terriers? Anyone know if I'd be wasting my time trying to train one or both of the older bitches or if you really can teach an older dog new tricks? This is Lily on a woodland walk: And the two dogs in front of the fire - their favourite place! Cei enjoying a roe foot... ...and 'retreiving' a ball on the beach... she was 5 weeks pregnant in this shot... All advice gratefully received, Cheers, Pip

Thanks guys - I think I'll stick with putting 4 in the mag and one up the spout for now... I'll be back at the RFD in a couple of weeks when my new .308 arrives, so will ceck it with them then - can't be bothered to make the 2hour round trip just for the mag! :look:

how did you get the mag apart? there are no screws; it appears to be rivetted together... I've tried working the spring by using an allen key to push the base down repeatedly (don't really want to keep pushing ammo into it just to work the spring), but it doesn't seem to be making any impact...

I've just purchased a Weirauch HW60J in .17hmr - when the weather settles down I might actually get to zero it and give it some use! In the meantime, I'm familiarising myself with the action and loading/unloading processes. I appreciate that, being new, some parts will require a little 'working in' - the bolt is a little stiff at present, but the main concern I have is the magazine. I'm sure it should take 5 rounds, but I can only get 4 in comfortably. Is this another case of waiting till the spring eases off a little, or will it really only take 4 rounds? There's no mention of either the number of rounds it should take, or any spring issues, in the manual... Anyone with an HW60J able to help shed light on this?

As I've said, the purpose of this thread was to ask if any working dog breeders used any clauses in their sale contracts. This thread is not intended to debate the use or usefulness of sale contracts, not to discuss spay/neuter clauses, or whether working dogs are treated any differently than any other dog. Please try to keep this on topic - it was a fair question, how about some fair answers?

As I said, I'm selling thee dogs as 'Companion Dgs' - which generally means they will be purely a pet and not used for any other purpose. Greenhunter: of course I wouldn't expect a restriction on the use of a gun I bought, other than the legal restrictions of safety and game season - however a dog is a living animal, not an inanimate object... I expect it to be treated the way I would treat it if it stayed in my home with my family, and the contract just makes some statements to that effect. It also gives the buyer some warranty on the care the pup has received while in my home, including details of vaccinations and micro-chipping, and any relevant genetic scoring such as hip and eye scores (not relevant for Welsh Terriers, but other breeds include them in their contracts) The spay/neuter clause can either be omitted if the buyer has stated that they want to work/show/breed the dog, or, even if the buyer has originally intended only to have the dog as a companion, if they later (before spaying/neutering) decide that the dog is of show/breed/working quality, the spay/neuter clause can be lifted under written agreement. These things are flexible and not intended to replace the normal checking of any prospective buyer. I always advise my prospective buyer that I use a contract, and even before they come to see the pups for the first time, I send them a copy so that they are fully aware of their rights and responsibilities. If they decide not to buy from me because they don't like the contract - that's fine by me. These contracts are enforceable by law, and buyers can be fined if the contracts are not adhered to. The intention of the spay/neuter clause is to help avoid unecessary / unwanted litters, as well as to attempt to prevent dogs being used in puppy farms. Please - I dont want this to get into a heated debate about puppy farms or whether or not contracts should exist in the first place. I was just looking for some advice on whether working animals had specific clauses. I guess from the responses so far, breeders of working animals aren't using contracts at all!

I don't mind you asking in the least... I don't expect a dog to be treated any differently, my query is more related to whether any specific clauses are normally included in the sale contracts for working dogs. For companion dogs, it's now becoming normal to include a 'spay/neuter' clause to ensure that the dog is not used for breeding - especially with the extra coverage that puppy farms and irresponsible breeding is getting. What I'm after is whether any specific clauses are included either to state an expectation of a level of training, or if certain types of 'work' are specified (or forbidden), other than the standard ones for 'appropriate training' and 'not to be used for fighting'...

I use a fairly standard sale/purchase contract when breeding my Welsh Terriers. Normally I sell them purely as companion dogs, not for show, breeding or as working dogs, and the contract clauses reflect that. I've had an enquiry from someone who may be interested in one of the forthcoming litter as a working dog, both as a beating dog and as a follow-up dog for stalking. Do any breeders use any specific clauses in their sale/purchase contracts relating to the use and care of the dog while being used as a working animal?

If you're going to bbq them, wrap them in foil parcels with oil, herbs etc, or some marinade. Keep as much moisture in the package as you can. I did a 'Hunter-Gatherer' course a few years back; half a dozen hares were lamped and paunched the previous evening, and we skinned and butchered them the next morning. The saddles were cut into medallions and flash fried on a skillet with some oil, salt & pepper, the legs wrapped in foil with some olive oil, herbs & seasoning and some mushrooms and walnuts we'd foraged, then placed around the edges of the fire to cook slowly. We also took one of the hares and spit-roasted it - most of the group had suggested that that's how they would have cooked it. The saddle was better than best fillet steak, the meat on the legs was tender and tasty - the spit roasted hare was tough as old boots!

Sign a petition to support responsible dog breeding... http://www.gopetition.co.uk/online/24731.html There's also a link to the Kennel Club's 'Fit for Function' website...

Yup, similar thing with my two... Cei is a breeze, used to loud noises, yelling, arm-waving, and machinery (grew up around tree-surgeons all day) - I can beat her with a stick and she'll enjoy it! :look: Lily on the other hand is quite excitable, so I have to be careful not to get her too excited during training as she'll go mental. Same breed (Welsh Terriers) but completely different characters. Adapt the training to suit the dog - use soft commands, treats, and plenty of praise when good. Try not to discipline the bad too much at first until he warms to you a bit more. Something that's really hard is your own emotional state. I see this all the time with Lily - my partner Andy gets really frustrated with her and although outwardly he's trying to behave normally, she seems to pick up on his internal frustration and shies away from him when he gets this way. You have to try and remain calm and positive all the time. If you find you're getting frustrated, stop the training and try just paying a fun game with the dog for a while until you've both settled down, then go back to the training.

Interesting thread... My partner had never been to the States, and his only exposure to Yanks was TV shows and tourists in the cities. He thought that all yanks were ignorant, aggressive, loud, uncouth, etc. etc. My sister lives in North Carolina at the bottom of the Blue Ridge mountain range - we took our last holiday there a few years ago, and decided to fly into Washington Dulles and take several days to drive there, visiting various places along the way. Everywhere we went we were met with courtesy, smiles, and pleasant words. People went out of their way to help us and we had a lot of interesting discussions about differences in our cultures and laws. My partner came to the conclusion that all the nice people in America stayed at home, and it was just the loudmouthed idiots that travelled! I'm not sure I agree with him entirely, but it's certainly true that you don't see a complete picture of Americans just from TV and tourists; and it's the same everywhere else. I'm currently working in Ivory Coast, West Africa, and again have found that the people here are extremely friendly, happy to share their culture and welcome you into it, extremely hard working and family-oriented. I think if you want to learn more about a people, you have to visit their country and see how they live... You'll find that there is no single category that you can fit them into - there will be all kinds of extremes, and everything in between, and this will apply whatever country or people you visit...

Hadn't heard that one before, but I've had (and seen) dogs with bad nettle stings before. I'll add it to my list. I always keep the usual tick remover, some 'stop bleeding' spray and some of the equine bandage (stretchy tape that sticks to itself) in my dog FAK. My partner found the tape especially handy - he used to take the dog with him when he was working as a tree surgeon. He cut himself quite badly one day, and between the three tree surgeons working that day, none had a decent clean field dressing! They cleaned the wound, used the antiseptic wipe as a pad, and wrapped it with the tape! Never had to use it on the dogs so far, but always good to keep around...

Sadly I'm away on business that weekend now, so can't make it. I'm looking at late July or even August before I have a clear weekend. Good luck all - hope to see the reports and pics afterwards! Pippa

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