MuPPeT_ON_TouR
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Posts posted by MuPPeT_ON_TouR
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So after a couple of week I finally have my gun back. GMK have cleaned the knuckle as an act of good will on their behalf
I'm still a bit ****** off that that they maintain that plate flaking off mine and a couple of other owners of the SP1 guns on this forum is our fault and due to lack of lubrication.
Havin' said all that I am very pleased at the results, these pics were taken after shooting 150 carts on Friday and after a clean so looks like the fix has done it's job and should hold.
KNUCKLE AREA
FORE END (Not nearly as much wear as others and not as deep)
FORE END/KNUCKLE GAP (Not loose after material was removed)
If you have plating flaking off get it to GMK I can't see anything wrong with the work they have done.
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I've been... Nothin' wrong with it, bit of an off road course to get to it but a very good ground...
Also sells good bacon rolls so gets a big +1 from me.
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Hold on,if its a new gun what's the problem?
I have a SP 1 too and the oiled finish isn't the best because its a cheap cut of wood,if its like mine it's a little open grained.If you mean rain marks you mean dull patches on the stock this is to be expected,dry it off and add a very small amount of walnut oil and palm it in with the heat of your hand.
The stock is oiled it just needs topping up a little.you will be amazed how little the stock takes in,let dry naturally for a few days and buff.
I use CCL but on bare stocks for re finishing,your stock is finished
You can get CCL gun stock oil to finish off a new stock, what I'm on about is their conditioning oil for pre oiled/finished stocks.
"This Preparation has been specially blended by Clive C. Lemon - Gun Maker to restore the sheen to existing oil finishes or to add an extra shine to the surface of the traditional hand rubbed oil finish."
"New stocks oil finished in the traditional way can be improved still further by an application of this product to give a beautiful surface sheen to the wood. This oil is specially recommended for use after oil finishing with CCL Traditional Gunstock Oil Finishing Kit"
It says to give it one or two coats over a season. So YES, use the conditioning oil to top up the thin coat Beretta do in the first place.
I'm on my second coat and the dry sort of light areas near the rubber butt pad have gone and the inside of the fore end almost looks as nice as the outside.. Yes the wood used on the stock on the SP1 is very basic, but the conditioning oil has improved the look of the wood, sealed and protected it, I also believe it will help reduce water marks when it rains, making them easier to wipe off and not leave marks.. I will stick it in the rain once I have done and find out.
CCL conditioning oil, as recommended by the workshop guy at GMK.
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You would need the longer one (assuming your bolt is the 6mm type - some say it is 5mm) if you don't want to remove the recoil pad. The Beretta tool is 270mm - the shorter of the two you cite is 265mm - with a collar on the handle.
There is a proper Beretta hex key on E*ay.
I have that one on watch but because it's Blue and Says Beretta.... stoopid folk pay stoooopid money.
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I have an SP1,,
What allen key will do.. The 12" one or the shorter one? both are 6mm
Thanks.
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I've just got My SP1 back from GMK and while it was down for repair I spoke to the workshop and in particular a very nice man called Andy, I took the opportunity to pick his brains.....
You need CCL Gunstock Conditioning Oil
Follow the instructions, no need to remove the old finish just add the new stuff. You just need 24 hours or so for this oil to dry.
Don't get it on the checkering!
You can also treat the inside of the fore end, like mine you will probably find it very dry inside and unprotected.
The oil will condition the wood, protect/seal it and bring out a nice shine. I'm writing this as I wait for my second coat to dry, I'm going to do 1 coat every few days till I have 5 or six applications/coats.
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Although my SP1 feels OK for me in so much as I'm not sure what wrong would feel like. Does anybody know someplace near me to get fitted or can they recommend I get it done at all.
I can't afford to adjust my stock with new combs and wood stock extension work right now but am aware there are differing thicknesses of OEM butt pads and rubber comb bits for those who bruise like a peach I could use for now.
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IMHO, you are overly stressing about this. I have a 12g SP1 and recently bought a 20g SP1. It has the same rub marks. Its purely down to the fore end "kissing" the action. The high spot could be measured in microns, not even thou's. On high end guns, this would be hand polished using candle smoke to get the clearance to the width of soot.
When I was after my SP1, I looked at lots of alternatives and the gaps here and there in the machining were huge for much more money than the SP1.
I agree the soldering needs doing on the muzzle, easy job as has already been said, and GMK have said they will do it.
I think to suggest its falling to bits is overstating the case a bit. You don't seem so bothered about the chunk you knocked out of the barrels
. That would upset me more due to my own carelessness. Or maybe you are bothered and want to get a new gun out of GMK At the end of the day, its not, in the scheme of shotguns, hugely expensive. In 5 years time, it will, like mine, stand you in around a fiver a week, or £2.50 if you decide to sell it then. Less than the price of half a pint
In the meantime, for that money, look at what its giving you back.Chill, its a slight mark, its a tool albeit a nice one, not a priceless oil painting, Ming vase, or a Purdey. Go and have some fun with it.
Some great comments and thoughts, of course it would have been better had you read the thread first though.
"I think to suggest its falling to bits is overstating the case a bit"
My opening line reads "A slight exaggeration but after only 350 shots fired and 4 outings I was a bit disappointed to see this on my 1 year old SP1" it was sort of sarcasm, you must have missed it.
"I have a 12g SP1 and recently bought a 20g SP1. It has the same rub marks"
Are you on about rub marks/wear and tear that I and everybody else expects to see... or plating flaking off the gun after next to no use?
"Chill, it's a slight mark"
Plating flaking off is a slight mark and my concerns about it spreading to where it can be seen are without merit and I should not have seeked advice from this forum and GMK?
"You don't seem so bothered about the chunk you knocked out of the barrels"
This one gets to me as I'm not sure how you know what bothers me but after you read this post I'm sure you will be more clued up.
"Or maybe you are bothered and want to get a new gun out of GMK"
You must have missed the fact that the only time I wanted a new gun is when they said it will take 6-9 months to get MINE back
You probably didn't read this either...
"it is a really small ding, almost unnoticeable unless it is dirty"
"Only good news is I will get it back soon"
To sum up for you.
"bothered about the chunk you knocked out of the barrels"..."I think to suggest its falling to bits is overstating the case a bit"...
Not sure you even read your own post in the end.
So just to recap for you
Plate Flake Problem?
6-9 month ***!
Me blame warranty no, not happy.
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It looks like flaking plating is an un-documented feature on the SP1, and is probably normal.
I always expected to see wear marks, shinny metal where it has rubbed I just didn't expect to see the finish flaking off the gun.
I can't understand then why when I sent pics down to GMK and simply asked what was wrong they told me to send the gun down straight away as they could sort it.
Turns out they can't sort it so they then blamed me for the problem.
Some simple assurance to say this was nothing to worry about and the rest of the plating would not be effected would have been enough for me.
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So after more talks with the gun shop today it appears and makes perfect sense to me that the plating is of **** quality and is too bloody thin to cope with the pressure of the joint, please look at original pic to see how thin the plating is.
As pointed out by utectok(thank you) this needs to be a tight joint.
Rather than anything to do with lack of lube or ninja bricks this to me looks exactly like crushed thin plating that has lifted off the base metal..
ANYBODY KNOW ANYTHING ABOUT PLATING AND CAN HELP???
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Just looked at my receiver and i have a small amount of wear similar to your.
Think i will give gmk s call this week to discuss
Any chance of some pics?
Might help my case and yours of others have the same faults.
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None of my berettas have plateing on the knuckle
Do they have any plating on the receiver?
If getting rid of it on the knuckle will sort it, without the risk of it flaking at the exposed edge then I have no problem.
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Just P/X it for a nice Miroku and be done with it!
If I could with out losing too much.. I bloody would.. Trouble is I wouldn't go near it if I seen the plating in that condition.
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As this all sound a bit bitchy on my behalf,
I want to point out that when I first contacted GMK all I did was raise my concerns with them and asked if there was a problem.
They asked me to send it in and they WILL SORT IT.
Still they have not answered if the flaking will continue round the edge to the engraved bits of the receiver that are on show or if removing the plating (that should never be on wearing surfaces in my opinion) that this will be an end to my concerns.
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Been busy so not had time to update.. I've been told by GMK that...
The knuckle plate wearing has been caused by the lack of lubrication or debris between the join when assembled
UTTER ******* BULL****!
It was fine after I went out the first time, I know this as OCD kicked in when cleaning it after the first go with it.... It is like when you have a new car and you spend the whole time listening to every noise thinking it is broken......
So I know it happened the second time I went out with it. A whole 150 shots exactly or circa 75/80 opening and closes to you and me.
To say no lube is an utter joke, after I wipe down the gun I then clean the barrels with brushes, jags, and a bore snake. then I clean the receiver, I put grease on the knuckles... and pretty much anything else that hinges, reciprocates, twirls or squeaks or looks like it would like grease. I Then assemble the whole thing, then wipe off all the excess grease that has squeezed out.. there is a lot of grease that squeezes out right now as it is only my first gun. It then gets wiped down with lightly oiled cloth to remove all finger prints, JOB DONE!
THIS WAS NOT CAUSE BY LACK OF LUBE!
Debris.. ah yes! That HUGE gap in between the fore end and receiver at the knuckle that is well known for hiding the odd ******* brick or two that can with the skill of a sushi chef that part times as a ninja, remove metal and leave NO OTHER trace of it having been there.. Debris that can get in that gap leave no scratches or scrapes nor could it be felt when opening or closing the gun but can remove metal.. When I say remove I mean can cause it to bubble and lift off the base metal and leave no marks. **** me.. Its debris that can use THE FORCE!
THIS WAS NOT CAUSED BY FORCE USING DEBRIS!
I can except WORN things. but not things flaking off after 350 carts and 4 outings!
On the subject of warranty, gun is over a year old and while this does not limit the responsibilities of the shop It was purchased in the warranty is with GMK and the buck does indeed stop there.
I figured I would phone the shop and ask for help/opinions, The man was very nice and obviously knowledgeable so I explained the fault and was told "that part is not plated".. but but but.. "IT'S NOT PLATED!"... I'll send you a pic, so I did.... He didn't bother to get back to me.
I now have no clue what my next course of action will be...
GMK have said..
The options are to remove the plate completely from both knuckle surfaces or to return the gun to the Beretta factory for the complete action to be re - plated.
They then said..
GMK will attempt to put this right as a gesture of good will, it is not a warranty issue.
They will send it away to Italy to fix.. but IT IS NOT A WARRANTY ISSUE
I'm confused as they have offered to do this twice now with no mention of cost as it is all my fault?
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Yes chokes are similar.. like shoes are all similar because they go on your feet.
Your pattern has an awful lot do to with the cartridge you use as well. If you are not going to pattern test your gun then don't waste your time as you will have no clue what a choke does on your gun or the carts you use.
Chokes are full conical like Teague or conical and parallel like most others.
If you want to **** with your head read this.
http://www.chuckhawks.com/extended_chokes_patterns.htm
Have fun.
As far as I can tell full conical is best.. But I've not pattern tested my gun yet to tell so will give no advice on chokes.. other than to say stay clear unless you want to boggle your head.
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As I only found out on Friday that their service was a joke and have not yet found out if my concerns about just "cleaning" the effected area are valid then as yet I have not decided on what my course of action will be. Trading standards will say that they must be given reasonable time to fix the problem, only if they don't can I pursue further options.
At no point do I have any delusions that a gun costing £1300 would last a lifetime with no problems, but I was hoping it would be in a fair condition to hand down to my son when he is old enough in a few years time, I bought it knowing spare parts and the expertise to fix it would still be around in years to come.
When talking about the scale of purchase, as you can get far far far cheaper on the scale I do expect more than 350 carts and 4 bloody outings from a Beretta even one from the lower end of the scale, I'm pretty sure that's not unreasonable, and I'm bloody sure 6 - 9 months to put right IS bloody unreasonable.
As soon as I find out if my concerns have merit then I can go to them and say why I find their course of action unacceptable, then starts a whole load of **** and hassle, when all I want to do is use what I paid for.
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I can take faults with things as it just tends to be my luck. The solder job was never my main concern.
That joint/surface in question has always been greased and it's not even a load bearing/high stress surface... even if it was. ITS only done 350 carts and 4 times in the field!!!
It bubbled up from under so I think the receiver was not cleaned properly before it was coated so never adhered to the metal underneath.
Was it just that spot they didn't clean or was left contaminated?
Or in 1 years time will other bits start to flake off. How can a clean fix it? I will now have an open edge to the plating and I can see that causing nothing but problems. What really ****** me off is the fact they near as damn admitted that to fix the problem it would need re plating but then used the utter joke and threat of a 6 - 9 month time scale to put me off doing what they should do straight off, what sort of service is that?
How the hell does it take 6 to 9 months!!!!!!
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After getting ****** off at seeing the bit of weld missing and the finish flaking off I stuffed the gun back in its safe, muzzle down as being new I'm paranoid about over oiling.. It landed on one of the bolts holding the safe to the floor, it is a really small ding, almost unnoticeable unless it is dirty. There was an extra towel on the floor to protect it from these bolts while I got some stiff foam to sort the problem out, but it caught on the barrel taking the gun out and I didn't sit it in place again while ****** off.
This left me in an even more ****** off mood....
I've paid out on member ships, and insurance.. and I might not even have the ******* gun for 9 month of these due to the utter joke that is Beretta customer care.
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I know him very well.. he has taken any and all opportunities to make a mockery of my over expensive tubes with pins.
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Die Lord O War. DIE! Get back to your holiday cottage you big girls blouse.
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As in first post, gun is more or less split new. This is caused by the ever increasing problem of Beretta poor quality. No lack of lube can cause plating to flake off or weld to fall out.
Being new my only problem will be over oiling and greasing.
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Got some good and bad news and to tell you the truth will never buy a Beretta again in my life.
Had no news of progress so asked for an update and they were nice and quick to respond.
"The barrel is being re soldered at the muzzle and the knuckle area is being cleaned.
The slight marking beneath the safety catch is to be expected with use and is cosmetic only.
The receiver has not been re-plated. If you require, the gun could be returned to the Beretta factory in Italy for action re-plate, however this will mean that you will be without it for 6-9 months. "
How the **** do you clean something that is no longer there? I suspect it will now have a clear gap between fore end and receiver where it is now cleaned of the plate that has flaked off.. I also think that there will now be an edge to the plating that will in very short order also start to flake when it gets snagged or moisture/contaminates get under I and lift it off.
Has anybody else got horrible marring under the safety switch, I've not got pics yet, but it has made a real mess of the "S" that it slides over when put onto safe.
A 6-9 month wait.... get too ****... send me a new gun...
Please let me know if I am wrong or unreasonable.. very ****** of right now.
Only good news is I will get it back soon. I might just be to OCD/picky to own a working gun.
Beretta SP1 Fallin' to bits
in Guns & Equipment
Posted
They can do it quicker, I dragged it out because I was unsure about taking their solution...
Phone them, I reckon if you get it down to them on a Friday you will get it back in 1 week.