Milo
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Posts posted by Milo
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Even when the leaf is fully on you can still "roost shoot" by making use of the flight lines that the birds use to get to the wood. Obviously it depends on the situation but, as an example, I have a 22 acre wood which is mature but very densely planted firs. It is impossible to shoot effectively within the boundaries of the plantation as there is only one open ride and birds are across it before you can get your gun up. This wood is LOVED by pigeons all year round so I had to find a way to shoot it.
I watched the flight lines and stuck up a temporary hide on a grass field about 50 yards outside the wood underneath the strongest line. Had some initial success but it was windless on the first day and the line was wide so I spent most of my time watching them pour in over a 200 yard front. Next time out I used two rotors near the hide and this was very much more effective. Then I made a permanent hide from pallets stuffed with fir boughs which are freshened up from time to time. I plan to be in it again on Saturday!
If you watch pigeons you will normally have a good chance of finding a way of getting to grips with them. Good luck.
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Sounds like Milo is retired. Nice concept if you have the patience and the free time!
I wish!
Note, this is advice for a "new'un" just starting out who hasn't yet had the chance to understand how pigeons generally behave on any given area of land. I wish I had done it this way when I was a lad as it would have saved me a lot of wasted time and frustration.
Tightchoke, are you from the Wittering near Stamford?
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I'm in awe. Yep, the energy is there at 65 yards but in theory with standard choke performance you're getting less than half the pellet strike that the BASC recommend as the minimum for the pigeon (which I,incidentally, think is wrong but they're the experts). What make of choke are you using, sounds the bees' knees?
Cheers
Fixed trap chokes which are supposed to be 40-45 thou constriction. I only had them measured once so can't vouch for the numbers. What I have found is that their effectiveness varies with different cartridges. I haven't tried everything on the market but SIPE seem best all round and give me most confidence. Gamebore black gold 32g 5 also pattern well but the SIPE seem to be the most effective in the field. Numbers only get you so far; in the end you have to go with what you see in real use.
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(Just seen the post by Deny Essex which was posted while I was typing and covers some of what I wanted to offer).
Stick at it. Silly magazine articles have warped people's expectations because pigeon shooting is not generally an instant gratification activity. Put in the hard yards and you will be rewarded. Personally, I would not go out with the keeper, I would do it all myself. A lesson learned yourself is worth ten free tips from someone else.
If you are a beginner and want the quickest route to success, here's what I recommend. It is counter-intuitive because you don't get to the shooting bit until phase four but it works if you are disciplined.
Phase 1.
Spend five sessions travelling round your land and surrounding area just watching pigeons. No kit except transport and binos. Look in the air. Follow the flight lines to see where they start (roosting/day roosting wood) and where they end (feeding areas). See how often they go back to the day roost. If there are birds on the fields always walk them off. See where they go and if/how they come back.
Phase 2.
Spend two sessions with hide and decoys but no gun. Don't take a gun with you because you WILL be tempted to use it! Do a full recce. Verify the flightlines. Find the fields where they are feeding. Walk them off. If they come back properly set up your hide and pattern and see what happens. Tweak your hide and pattern until it works. Then watch some more. Then watch some more. It is fascinating and you learn lessons that are invaluable.
Phase 3.
Spend two sessions learning the day roosts properly. Verify the flight lines of the day and work them back to the day roost/s. Clap them out of the wood and wait to see if/how/when they come back. If at all possible, set up crow bangers on the feeding fields for most realistic results. If you have dozens of fields of rape in your area and only one or two confirmed day roosts you know where to shoot and that's the woods. In the Winter and Spring particularly I have had many days of consistent shooting in the woods while decoyers on the fields fire a couple of shots and never see another bird.
Phase 4.
Fully kitted up, gun and all, do a proper recce. If you find birds feeding, walk them off and watch closely what happens. With the time you have invested and lessons learned in phase 1-3, you should have a good chance of deciding which field, flight line or wood to set up in with a reasonable chance of success.
Looking back on the last 40 years of pigeon shooting most of my enjoyment has come from trying to work it out so I encourage you to enjoy the journey as the destination is always uncertain.
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Another interesting post. It's strange how experiences can differ. I like to have a go at any pigeon at around 50 yards, even with 7.5 shot. If the pattern is placed correctly, the pigeons invariably fall dead.
Don't doubt your experience for a minute, Motty. But I need a combination that works to 60 yards rather than 50. Allowing some room for error let's say 65 yards in reality.
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If I was only shooting pigeons that decoyed to the pattern I would be very happy using an ounce of 7s through cylinder barrels. In fact, being an avid follower of Archie Coates, I did so for many years and it was very effective, if a tad lazy. Cartridge to kill ratios were flattering, as you may imagine, but it was inevitable that many shootable pigeons went unsaluted.
For the last couple of decades I have taken on all comers (within reason) and my bags have roughly doubled as a result. I now use 32g 5.5 fibre via full choke 32" tubes in 12 bore with an Isis recoil reducer fitted. The Isis is a miracle bit of kit, by the way. Why they are not more widely used is a mystery to me.
In my experience (subjective and quite possibly wrong, I admit) out to 35 yards, or so, choke/load choice is not particularly critical to success. Once you are dealing with the area between 40 to 60 yards it is a different ballgame. I don't deliberately shoot beyond about 60 as pattern density falls off quickly regardless of choke and I don't wish to use a heavier load.
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Davyo pop into sam turners in Northallerton thats where i get mine from
+1. I would call them before you go to make sure they are in stock as I have known them to run out.
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A lot of sensible advice has already been provided but I would like to add just one point regarding the need for rotors.
If I want to decoy birds into a defined killing area I use two patterns of flappers and statics with a large, completely clear, area between them. If I want a bit more of a challenge I use two rotors only on max revs and shoot pigeons coming by for a look. In anything approaching a wind, the latter provides tremendous sport when using a suitable combination of gun, choke and cartridge. It also has the advantage of working on any crop or roosting wood at any time of the year. If you have a reasonable flight line you can even do it on grass.
Good luck finding out what works best for you.
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Hey folks,
A little advice please. The two farms I shoot over are putting beans down next week. When would be the best time to shoot?
Many thanks in advance,
Crash
Hi Crash,
Forgot to mention that if beans are going in on two farms, two fields or even one big one, you should be prepared to "flag off" the areas on which you wish to deter pigeons from feeding. I have found that a combination of flags and rope bangers work best. This is assuming the farmer doesn't object and there is no fire risk. I hang two lines of bangers in each position to provide a level of redundancy in case one rope fails. If you are lucky enough to be set up in a great location with lots of traffic the last thing you want is to have to leave the hide to sort out something you could have done properly in the first place. Watching birds pile into your pattern while you are fiddling about with something 300 yards away can be frustrating.
Good luck,
Milo.
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Some days they are on it right after drilling and sometimes it takes a while so try to recce it every day as often as you can. Be aware that sometimes they commit to the field for one day only and never come back again until harvest so when you go for a recce take your gear with you. If they are on it don't wait until the next day to get stuck in. Even if they are hammering it don't set up until you have established the flight lines in and out. Good luck.
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Depends on the wind and how many dead birds I have but generally just two groups with a completely clear landing area in the middle. Similar to the natural approach of Archie Coates rather than John Batley's regimental V. Half the fun is experimenting to find what works for you in different conditions. Good luck.
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Anthony,
Currently using a Mk2 at about 30ftlbs and tried most brands. Bis Mags are great in .177 but some people do not like the trajectory in .22 unless looking at 40ftlbs or thereabouts.
H&N FT and T are good to try as they are much more accurate that Prems in my rifle. Others worth a shot (if you will forgive the pun) are:
AA fields 5.51
Daystate FT
Both have are a longer pellet than the FTT/Prem style and can, in some barrels aid stability at higher velocities.
I think it may be worth mentioning that when testing any one element of accuracy one should remove all other influences. Therefore I ensure that I "bench rest" to take away my own considerable failures in technique, choose a still day, shoot from the heart of the fill and warm up with around fifty rounds before starting the test.
Good luck. A confidence inspiring pellet is essential,
Milo.
Flight 4U 9525
in Off Topic
Posted
They should install lavatories on every flight deck.