strongbow

"On Saturday 50 people emailed BASC copies of their responses to the consultation. All contained some very well put arguments for and against the various proposals. Of those 50 emails received on Saturday three were opposed to the greylag/mallard proposals." That would be about right as the percentage of wildfowlers to non wildfowler members is about 5% I believe that was the purpose of the email on Friday, to rally some support saying "come on guys help us reduce th red tape" most non wildfowling members would be fooled by the figures on wildfowl, that I believe are misleading. Then BASC can say they asked their members and claim that shooting geese out of season is what the majority wanted. It's Politics 101

David Just to let you know that a letter was recieved by our club secertary, it was address to him as a member so he never thought of it as a club corrspondence. It was, however, nothing more than a copy and paste of the infomation on the web site, starting...... Dear Member, Natural Englands consultation on general and class licences BASC Council is aware that some concern has been expressed about BASC’s position on the Natural England consultation on general and class licences. While the consultation covers a number of proposals, wildfowlers have shown an interest in two in particular because they relate to greylag geese and mallard........ Blah, Blah,Blah Sorry I was hoping for a little more than that.

Morning David So are you saying that farmers nationwide would look at revoking permission for shooting their vermin etc, because they are members of BASC, which did not support a handful of farmers? I find that very hard believe. The factual figures behind the Issue of Licences. The population of breeding greylag geese has increased by 179% in the last 20 years (8.95% per year) and the breeding mallard population has increased by 20% in the same time period. (a mere 1 % per year) For greylag geese in the period from 2005-2011 there were 349 licences issued to destroy up to 90,448 eggs (the actual numbers of licences for crop protection were, 2005 -43, 2006 -23, 2007 -28, 2008 -28, 2009 -25, 2010 -2, 2011 -0 Grand total 149) and 457 licences to shoot or kill by injection 15,647, birds. (actual numbers of licences for crop protection were, 2005 -65, 2006 -33, 2007 -51, 2008 -53, 2009 -56, 2010 -49, 2011 -0, Grand total 307) Most of these licences were to prevent serious damage to crops (43% and 67% respectively ) or to protect air safety. For mallard in the period from 2005-2011 there were 78 licenses (only 11.1 per year) issued to destroy up to 32,440 eggs and 30 licences (only 4.3 per year) to shoot or kill by injection 2,471 birds. Most of these licences were to protect public health and air safety. Number of Licences Cormorant for the same period (2005-2011) 2706 http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/piscy-stats_tcm6-10263.pdf There is a downward trend in Licence Issue for Greylag and Mallard, but upward for Cormorants.

FYI http://basc.org.uk/about-basc/basc-policies/basc-policy-on-wildfowling/ "BASC will do everything within its power to promote and protect the sport of wildfowling. It will encourage and facilitate entry to the sport, support and extend the club structure and represent the sport at all levels. BASC will furthermore oppose at all levels any restriction being placed upon wildfowling that is not, in the opinion of both the Council and its Wildfowling Liaison Committee, capable of being shown by clear evidence to be necessary for the future of wildfowling in the UK and the wildfowl and wildlife habitat on which wildfowling depends."

Quote from David BASC"As I said before do we really want to paint BASC and its members and the shooting organisation who wants farmers and landowners tied up in red tape, have to fill in a 10 page application form and to have to wait up to 30 days or more to get a SL granted if their crops are being damaged? How many people could lose their shooting opportunity if this were the case? " David, I don't believe anyone lost the opportunity for shooting geese in 2011 because of NE taking too long to process a SL, due to there being no licences issued for greylag crop protection in this year according to NE records. With only 30 SLs in 2012 (I'm not sure how many of those were for shooting and how many for egg destruction as the details are not currenly on the NE web site) but I would image not many !!! According to NE Stats for March 2014 they are currently meeting 92.77% of service targets for "other Licences" which includes Geese. http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/march-2014-delivery-report_tcm6-37729.pdf page 5 So what is the REAL issue ?

The below link shows the number of licences issued for crop protection from greylags between 2005 and 2011 in a graph form. The one graph shows total licences including egg destruction and the other shows just licences for shooting. The data if sourced from NE web site http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/ourwork/regulation/wildlife/licences/statistics.aspx link to photbucket http://i1240.photobucket.com/albums/gg493/strongbowrt/LicencesIssued2005-2011_zpsbdcefab0.jpg There were no licences issued in 2011 for greylags on crop protection. Not sure what the split of the 2012 licences is between egg destruction and shooting but the total was only 30. The trend seems to be one of decline so why the GL

WOW !!!!! Unbeliveable Just go this email at 7.15pm Looks like someone is running scared and looking to rally some troops. I guess that answers the question about being able to contact members, BASC Head office, Marford Mill, Rossett, Wrexham, LL12 0HL www.basc.org.uk Tel: 01244 573000 Email Urgent – act before 19 May to help simplify general licences Please email Natural England at wildlife.consultation@naturalengland.org.uk by Monday 19 May to call for a simplification of the English general licences. There are more than 20 English general licences and a number of them allow the management of species causing conflict with conservation or human interests. For example, the shooting of woodpigeon is permitted at any time of year to help prevent crop damage. General licences were introduced more than 20 years ago as a legal necessity to comply with European law. The reasons were complex but the principle was simple – to permit people to continue to carry out necessary control with no added burdens. As with the quarry seasons people only needed to know what species were on the list. However, following two decades of gold-plating the general licences in England are now so complex that they are confusing to the average user. Natural England is consulting on 48 pages of proposed changes to the general licences. The consultation closes on 19 May. The proposals would make the terms and conditions even more complex while also making it a legal requirement for users to have read and understood up to ten pages of legal text. In essence Natural England is continuing the trend of its predecessors in shifting national legal responsibilities onto licence users. BASC believes in reducing red tape for shooting. The situation today is far removed from 1992 when Ministers assured stakeholders that the introduction of general licences was a legal device but one which would continue to allow necessary control with no added burdens. The general licences need only to list the species legally affected and the legally permitted methods - all on a single page. If you agree email wildlife.consultation@naturalengland.org.uk by 19 May with your views. Click here for more information

Hi David Just heard from the Chairman of Gloucestershire Wildfowlers, via email, his said he got a call saying that a letter was on it's way but has received nothing. Might be worth checking the mail room. Can anyone else lay claim to any other Club have received this letter ??

Hi David Firstly, I take my hat of to you for your resolve and faith in your employer, if more people showed your level of fight I don't think we would be in this situation. Maybe you should go for Council next year. My edits in red are just how I see it, I am not saying it's wrong to support the farmers, far from it, although according to the NE consultation only 30 SL were issued in 2012 for agricultural damage and none were refused (hardly a need for a GL), and it is, no doubt, a good political move to buddy up with the newly appointed chairman of NE.I just don't believe it should be done at the expense of the members. I will be emailing NE with my views on this matter, I just hoped I wouldn't have to because I felt the unified voice of shooting I subscribe to would be doing it any way.

+3 After David mentioned the Constitution I thought I would trawl the BASC web site and found this 3. THE BASC MISSION The BASC mission is threefold: with added extras (the way I see it.) a) to promote and protect sporting shooting and the well-being of the natural environment throughout the United Kingdom and overseas, unless we need to help out Farmers* and reduce Natural Englands paper work. b) to represent members’ interests by providing an effective and unified voice for sporting shooting, provide individual services to members and others that may be more important or influential than the aforementioned members and c) to act for the benefit of the community, by promoting practical habitat conservation, wildfowl, game and deer management, good firearm licensing practice, best practice, education and scientific research or ourselves, as it suits. *Post #289 I believe the main point of this thread is that BASC claim to be "the voice of shooting" but once again they haven't listened. I hoped with a new CEO things were going to change. I think his quote should read "No evidence Of Change" Sorry but this is what happen when you spend an evening with Mr Blayney.

Not sure how many of you saw this last year, http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/417961/EXCLUSIVE-Charity-wildlife-cull-to-save-the-exotic-species even if the numbers are taken with a pinch of salt, it might start to shed some light the hidden agenda. PS I do like the bit where WWT say "that in many cases it is legally obliged to kill the birds because their centres are on or lie next to Sites of Special Scientific Interest." !!!

Sorry for sounding a little green, but was this not discussed at the BASC Wildfowl conference ? Is that not the purpose of such events ?

Hi All This link states the number of Cormorant licences as 497 in 2012 http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/piscy-stats_tcm6-10263.pdf and Brent Geese in 2011 - 74 http://www.naturalengland.org.uk/Images/statistics-all-birds-2011_tcm6-33758.pdf page 3 Scotslad - I think WWT will more than happy for it to happen, I am lead to believe they applied for several licences last year to ***** eggs to stop the common species interfering with their more exotic ones.