BASC or CPSA??

[smcgreg1]

Been having a think and thought I would like to give training to become a shotgun coach a go. The CPSA's route seems to be that you attend a series of courses and once complete you then become a CPSA instructor. The cost would be roughly £1k + expenses

 

The BASC method is that you have a mentor and work with them to become competent and then have to complete 3 out of 6 coaching days and also pass an exam that is a recognised NVQ. Cost is something I have not found out yet as it involves paying for mentor time plus expenses along with my own expenses. I would hazard a guess and say it was probably be the same cost as the CPSA route approximately.

 

So does anyone have any experience of these courses and if so what are you opinions? If you could do it all again do you think you would chose BASC over CPSA or vice versa?

 

Cheers

 

Scott

[SXPhil]

no coaches on here ?

 

 

 

what about buses

[poontang]

Clayman on here can tell you everything you need to know.

 

Send him a PM, don't think he's with CPSA anymore but he used to train their instructors.

 

Not sure about BASC courses though.

[steve0146]

I have done some BASC courses and CPSA. I'm a CPSA safety officer and clay target instructor. It depends what you want to do. The CPSA route is a good one if you intend to spend time acutually coaching but I let my membership lapse and received a phone call demanding reasons why. I had only forgotton to renew by a month or so, but the phone call was so agressive and rude, I never renewed anyway.

[smcgreg1]

thanks for you comments chaps. I will send Clayman a PM as suggested. Intereseting comment about the CPSA and the membership renewal though

[SXPhil]

I am doing the Safety Officer Badge next month

[clayman]

As noted I was Safety and Training manager at CPSA 2001 -2007. and as such, I declare that I am totally bias!!

 

The current CPSA course structure and content is largely because of the development I undertook in that time.

 

Over-all the difference between the CPSA and BASC is that one uses an external NVQ ( BASC), while the other is an internal NGB qualification.

 

BASC uses an external NVQ in Coaching. This actually has nothing to do with shooting, you can get this same qualification in coaching cookery, or singing, at your local ad-ed centre. BASC simply uses shooting as the practical element of a general NVQ. If you pass the NVQ in the BASC system using shotgun coaching as the practical, then you are a BASC Coach. Interestingly, you are also a coach in anything else you are professionally competent to deliver, as the NVQ qualification in itself is about the ways and means of coaching and has nothing to do with guns and shooting.

 

CPSA in my time also offered this as an ADDITION to the L-1 Instructor course, and it was called Accredited Shotgun Coach.

 

An NVQ is an assessment in the workplace, and on principal of the NVQ system there is no pass or grading, its only you have done it or you have not. So - under any NVQ as long as you DO all the elements, you gain the award.

 

In CPSA I was careful to provide Standards of tutor delivery ( £10,000+ was spent on course material at both client and tutor levels).

 

The one day course is designed as a filter, The tutor appraises you at the end and tells you what is weak, whether you should repeat the one day with him/her or another tutor, or if you are ready.

 

A criticism of the CPSA course has been the high pass rate, but this is actually down to good pre-filtering. I have to say in all honesty, that several qualified coaches from other qualification systems, and full time coaches from grounds coming onto the CPSA course are flabbergasted in the one-day at how ill prepared they are - because the CPSA standard of knowledge is very high. We have failed full time coaches from prestige grounds who can dress the tweeds and say good shot sir, but are hopeless technical instructors and really had no input knowledge to give to pupils. The learning curve on the CPSA course is massive.

 

We then went further and separated the instruction process from the assessment process.

 

On a L-1 course three Tutors with three Assistants ( trainee tutors) delivered over three days to a max 18 pupils.

 

3 Independent assessors who have not been involved in the course delivery, with three trainee assistants, then do an triple assessment to a standard of points. The assessors all underwent Assessor training to qualify as NVQ assessors. The collation of the standards achieved by the course pupil determined a pass or fail, and full reasons for all fails are given. There is both an appeals procedure and a re-assessment procedure.

 

Over-all, on a 4 day course there is a 2:1 pupil to staff ratio, - this is way above any other course structure and one of the reasons for the cost of a CPSA course, but it does help in giving a high level of instruction and a fair assessment.

 

If you really want to learn a great deal, go to CPSA, but don't expect an easy ride.

Edited January 24, 2010 by clayman

[RC45]

As noted I was Safety and Training manager at CPSA 2001 -2007. and as such, I declare that I am totally bias!!

 

The current CPSA course structure and content is largely because of the development I undertook in that time.

 

Over-all the difference between the CPSA and BASC is that one uses an external NVQ ( BASC), while the other is an internal NGB qualification.

 

BASC uses an external NVQ in Coaching. This actually has nothing to do with shooting, you can get this same qualification in coaching cookery, or singing, at your local ad-ed centre. BASC simply uses shooting as the practical element of a general NVQ. If you pass the NVQ in the BASC system using shotgun coaching as the practical, then you are a BASC Coach. Interestingly, you are also a coach in anything else you are professionally competent to deliver, as the NVQ qualification in itself is about the ways and means of coaching and has nothing to do with guns and shooting.

 

CPSA in my time also offered this as an ADDITION to the L-1 Instructor course, and it was called Accredited Shotgun Coach.

 

An NVQ is an assessment in the workplace, and on principal of the NVQ system there is no pass or grading, its only you have done it or you have not. So - under any NVQ as long as you DO all the elements, you gain the award.

 

In CPSA I was careful to provide Standards of tutor delivery ( £10,000+ was spent on course material at both client and tutor levels).

 

The one day course is designed as a filter, The tutor appraises you at the end and tells you what is weak, whether you should repeat the one day with him/her or another tutor, or if you are ready.

 

A criticism of the CPSA course has been the high pass rate, but this is actually down to good pre-filtering. I have to say in all honesty, that several qualified coaches from other qualification systems, and full time coaches from grounds coming onto the CPSA course are flabbergasted in the one-day at how ill prepared they are - because the CPSA standard of knowledge is very high. We have failed full time coaches from prestige grounds who can dress the tweeds and say good shot sir, but are hopeless technical instructors and really had no input knowledge to give to pupils. The learning curve on the CPSA course is massive.

 

We then went further and separated the instruction process from the assessment process.

 

On a L-1 course three Tutors with three Assistants ( trainee tutors) delivered over three days to a max 18 pupils.

 

3 Independent assessors who have not been involved in the course delivery, with three trainee assistants, then do an triple assessment to a standard of points. The assessors all underwent Assessor training to qualify as NVQ assessors. The collation of the standards achieved by the course pupil determined a pass or fail, and full reasons for all fails are given. There is both an appeals procedure and a re-assessment procedure.

 

Over-all, on a 4 day course there is a 2:1 pupil to staff ratio, - this is way above any other course structure and one of the reasons for the cost of a CPSA course, but it does help in giving a high level of instruction and a fair assessment.

 

If you really want to learn a great deal, go to CPSA, but don't expect an easy ride.

 

Sorry to intrude, I don't want to hijack a thread but:

 

Do you have to be a crack shot to be a good coach? I already coach in other disciplines, but my clay shooting is no-where near my target performance.

 

Phil

[clayman]

Sorry to intrude, I don't want to hijack a thread but:

 

Do you have to be a crack shot to be a good coach? I already coach in other disciplines, but my clay shooting is no-where near my target performance.

 

Phil

 

The ability to shoot and the ability to instruct are two entirely different skills, as are instructing and coaching.

 

Instructing is providing technical input, so you need to know and understand your sport, and know how to give the 3Rs ( Result - what went wrong; Reason - why it went wrong; Rectification - what they must do to put it right)

 

Too many self appointed so called instructors get their status by being excellent shots themselves, but their instructional content can be limited to the first R - you missed behind. A true instructors skill lies in the next two Rs, and for that you need to understand your sport, but you do not actually need a high level of personal expertise in the sport itself, as your level of expertise as a successful instructor is your ability to identify fault in another party, and rectify it.

 

Great shots are not by default great instructors, and lousy shots can be great instructors/coaches. If you smoke clays but talk in grunts and have the personality of a cornflake packet, you wont make a good instructor.

 

A coach is a person who takes some-one who already has technical ability and makes them better. At the highest levels, a coach has NO technical knowledge of the sport. A highest level tennis coach can successfully in prove a shooters performance as all the coaching content is cross platform - its about Goal Setting; Concentration; Nutrition; Psychology etc etc.

 

All this being said, if you mean to become an instructor, you must have competence in technical knowledge. This does not mean to say you are a brilliant AA shot yourself, but it does mean having a broad knowledge.

 

This is what the one day course seeks to do. It identifies if you have enough experience. You'll be told ( or should be) at the end of it - yep, you are ready book L-1 - or go and shoot for 6mths and put in some registered scores to gain experience as you lack it, and come back and see us on another 1-dayer.

Edited January 24, 2010 by clayman

[smcgreg1]

Clayman,

Thank you very much for a very descriptive explination of the CPSA route. I read with interest the depth that the course goes into. I must admit I was leaning towards the BASC route before reading your post but now I think the CPSA route may be better because it sounds a lot more intense.

Phil is going to the safety officers course next month so I look forward to see what he thinks also. Once again a big thank you clayman for your help.

 

Cheers

 

 

Scott

[RC45]

 

Thanks!