Vipa Posted February 21, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Ackley, The fact that the AW has no knowledge of your ground has no relevance what so ever as to what the cull plan is. He and every other stalker in the world has no interest in your ground but what will interest him is the fact that you know what you are talking about, you have a cull plan and as long as the selected beast fits that plan and is in season then that is acceptable to be included as one of your ICR's. That is of course as long as you have stalked and shot a beast that fits the criteria. What you say about coming across a beast no matter what sex and trying to make it part of your ICR whether it is in season or not and shouting bang is total tosh. When I stalk a beast I look for one that is within my stalk criteria e.g. if I am looking for a yearling Doe but come across a yearling buck, what you are stating is I can shoot it and add it to my cull plan. No of course you are not saying that, so why should you get away with it on an ICR even if you are only shouting “BANG”. Stalking, if you are lucky enough to have a piece of land is all about management, no matter if you just visit for a few times a year or are there on a regular basis. You need to do the job as is required by the estate owner but at the same time you want to keep yourself in the position where you know that you are going to have a strong stock on the ground. Once again back to the cull plan. Hate to say this Blunder as your post is informed and well written... North of the border, most FC cull plans are 'shoot what you see as long as in season.' Nothing more.. So, cull plans can vary wildly between estates or even reasons for cull however, if that is the plan then it doesn't make it any less of a plan than a complex management plan. I am reliably informed by a very experienced and longstanding AW that each stalk has 3 elements, it isn't a requirement for each stalk to cover all 3 elements start to finish, the individual elements can be witnessed and signed off separately. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted February 21, 2012 Report Share Posted February 21, 2012 Hate to say this Blunder as your post is informed and well written... North of the border, most FC cull plans are 'shoot what you see as long as in season.' Nothing more.. So, cull plans can vary wildly between estates or even reasons for cull however, if that is the plan then it doesn't make it any less of a plan than a complex management plan. I am reliably informed by a very experienced and longstanding AW that each stalk has 3 elements, it isn't a requirement for each stalk to cover all 3 elements start to finish, the individual elements can be witnessed and signed off separately. thank you at last someone who knows what there talking about in the real world Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blunderbust Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 (edited) thank you at last someone who knows what there talking about in the real world Vipa Thanks for that, I am not disputing the fact that the stalk has a number of elements, there are actually 4, Element 1. Stalk Deer, Element 2 Cull Deer, Element 3 Prepare and inspect dead Deer and Element 4: Transport and store dead Deer. As I have stated also within these 4 elements there are certain Performance Criteria (PC). The first one has 6. The second has 7, the third has 8 and the fourth has 6. I also understand that certain parts of the Phases can be missed out on the AW's discretion and he can question the stalker on the missed parts or indeed they can be completed at another time during another stalk. What I am saying is that you cannot pass the ICR if you have not shot a beast because you will not be able to complete PC's 2.2 to 2.7 due to the fact that the assessment method is observation supported by questions. The point being that the AW must observe the beast being shot and the follow up action thereafter. The last paragraph on the Standards statement on page 3 states: You must meet all PCs on three separate occasions under witnessed conditions in order to be considered for the award of DSC L2, the evidence of this must be collected in the portfolio supplied. As I have stated that PC 2.2 is: Shoot Deer safely, humanely and hygienically, according to location and legal requirements. Key features of this PC states: Chosen shot is achieved in line with requirements. Rifle reloaded immediately. Therefor I say that you cannot complete DSC L 2 without shooting 3 x beasts. I am sure that if such an incomplete Portfolio was sent to the PA and CV/IV it would be returned to be completed in full. I can assure you that I am well aware what the situation in Scotland is, and understand what you say about cull plan being as long as it is in season shoot it. However buy making that statement you have displayed intent and subconsciously formulated a cull plan, all be it a simple one. In the case that you were doing your DSC L2 you would then be expected to find and stalk into your intended quarry. Ackley I am sorry you did not say you shouted bang but you did make the following statement. I can understand turning down a shot due to safety BUT I though it mattered not the sex or in or out of season,provided you stalked,identified then said BANG when a suitable shot was presented,then go back at a later date to do the dirty bit with a knife if they had deer hung in the larder That might have been the case in the past but it definitely is not now. I do however apologise as your business is your business and as you rightly inferred has nothing to do with me. I must have had a bit too much electric soup last night. That Malt goes right ti ma heed and it is even worse when I mix it wi Magners. Edited February 22, 2012 by Blunderbust Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted February 22, 2012 Report Share Posted February 22, 2012 Vipa Thanks for that, I am not disputing the fact that the stalk has a number of elements, there are actually 4, Element 1. Stalk Deer, Element 2 Cull Deer, Element 3 Prepare and inspect dead Deer and Element 4: Transport and store dead Deer. As I have stated also within these 4 elements there are certain Performance Criteria (PC). The first one has 6. The second has 7, the third has 8 and the fourth has 6. I also understand that certain parts of the Phases can be missed out on the AW's discretion and he can question the stalker on the missed parts or indeed they can be completed at another time during another stalk. What I am saying is that you cannot pass the ICR if you have not shot a beast because you will not be able to complete PC's 2.2 to 2.7 due to the fact that the assessment method is observation supported by questions. The point being that the AW must observe the beast being shot and the follow up action thereafter. The last paragraph on the Standards statement on page 3 states: “You must meet all PC’s on three separate occasions under witnessed conditions in order to be considered for the award of DSC L2, the evidence of this must be collected in the portfolio supplied”. As I have stated that PC 2.2 is: “Shoot Deer safely, humanely and hygienically, according to location and legal requirements”. Key features of this PC states: “Chosen shot is achieved in line with requirements. Rifle reloaded immediately”. Therefor I say that you cannot complete DSC L 2 without shooting 3 x beasts. I am sure that if such an incomplete Portfolio was sent to the PA and CV/IV it would be returned to be completed in full. I can assure you that I am well aware what the situation in Scotland is, and understand what you say about cull plan being as long as it is in season shoot it. However buy making that statement you have displayed intent and subconsciously formulated a cull plan, all be it a simple one. In the case that you were doing your DSC L2 you would then be expected to find and stalk into your intended quarry. Ackley I am sorry you did not say you shouted bang but you did make the following statement. “I can understand turning down a shot due to safety BUT I though it mattered not the sex or in or out of season,provided you stalked,identified then said BANG when a suitable shot was presented,then go back at a later date to do the dirty bit with a knife if they had deer hung in the larder” That might have been the case in the past but it definitely is not now. I do however apologise as your business is your business and as you rightly inferred has nothing to do with me. I must have had a bit too much electric soup last night. That Malt goes right ti ma heed and it is even worse when I mix it wi Magners. yes I did say what you have posted but read it again "I said thought" I missed the "T" off thought but thanks for your reply and appology,I just think "some" AWs takle the urine out of people in order to extract large sums of cash,a mate of mine who is doing his level 2 asked a AW to come onto his land,note his land,offered to pay what the AW wanted,and the AW turned around and told him he would have to pay him a cull fee.so my mate was on his own land shooting his own deer and the AW wanted moneyt for each beast he shot,work that one out by the way I did my level over a couple of weeks with 2 outings,2 beast on one day and 3rd on another both at different places,one with a AW and the other with a CW when you could use one Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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