Insurance

[David BASC]

NFU mutual most certainly will have high brand awareness within the farming community, and many farmers will have a policy with them for sure. The policy may well cover the farmer for shooting on his land, and the NFU do a syndicate policy as well, although the ones I have seen have been a little restrictive - i.e. no more than 10 guns on no more than 6 days or something like that.

 

What the farmer will want to see I am sure is a shooter who is insured and that the policy the shooter has also protects the farmer as well – this is called Indemnity to Principal.

 

By the way, a certain organisation also have high brand awareness in the farming community as it has been advertising in the British Farmer & Grower for the last three years.

Edited December 11, 2008 by David BASC

[Willow32]

Highlander....you said you dont like reading these posts.........I put the subject in the titles.....I did not force you to read it.........anyway my point is that there are a lot of people , also youngsters joining this sport which is very good......but with the credit cruch going on people are going to think " well it wont happen to me " and will not renew things like subscriptions.

All I am trying to say is that you only need a few incidents to happen and then all the good work goes out the window.

 

The main aim of every shooting organisation is to promote the sport and get more people involved.....the youngsters are going to be the future , give them a step up the ladder.... when they realise they enjoy it and start doing it more regulary then they can go for full subscription....

 

I personally think for the goodness of the sport that a number of organisations should be able to offer an insurance only policy.....

 

 

OR

 

Why not do first year joining BASC ,etc £10 then after 1 yr £30 and then 3 year £50 or something along them lines......this would show that you comitment and also lines up the future.....

 

 

 

Regards

Willow32

[David BASC]

To be honest there is no point in an organization offering an insurance only policy - as the organizations exist to protect shooting or their specific part of shooting, or country sports in general - to starve the association of cash is thus counter productive.

 

As for youngsters- some organizations offer FREE membership, others offer full membership to U18’s for massive discounts, so I do not think there really is an issue there!

 

Why stagger the cost of joining any of the organizations? It does not make financial sense I am afraid- and goes back to point 1 the organizations exist to protect– so please do not starve them of cash.

 

Anyway – your post was about how to be insured without joining an organization, as you see there are plenty of options out there but ask yourself is that the wisest move when you can join one of the smaller associations for less than £30? Or if you are feeling flush join the largest for £62.

 

David

[clayman]

There seems to be a suggestion by posters on this forum that our CCC3 product is not a legitimate scheme.

 

Lets just background the main players:

 

The idea originated with "Clayman" who is well known in the clay target community. A trade member of BASC, CPSA, GTA, and an RFD. His family have been underwriters and brokers at Lloyds for over 100 years in marine syndicates and Rose Thompson Young Ltd ( now taken over and amalgamated). JPY worked with a major shooting NGB for 5 yrs and had direct responsibilities with membership scheme, shooting ground, and professional liability insurance, the then brokers and Royal Sun Alliance underwriters for that organisation. The CCC3 product idea resulted from this in depth knowledge of the market and the need to support the Country Sports community with an "Easy Jet" scheme - no frills, very basic, but good value Country Sports Membership organisation that included a basic insurance cover as other sports and land organistaions do. JPY operates the marketing and sales interface for CCC3 through his business Abacus Group, aka the ####

 

The broker, Moshe Hadari of Chancery Barr is a IFSA established for over 25 years. Chancery Barr is FSA registered and the principal is a director of Country Cover Ltd. Mr Hadari is an internationally acclaimed lecturer and trainer in financial planning and insurance providing training and seminars on a world wide basis. The FSA brokers job is to maintain cover, answer queries and handle claims.

 

The underwriters ETI are the largest travel insurance group in Europe, with capitalisation that runs to Billions of Euros, and representation in every EU country. They are a registered Ltd company in the UK with offices in Horsham, Sussex. They are also FSA registered. They are not amateurs in the insurance game, and have in depth knowledge of FSA compliance. The holding company ETI Reinsurance, also owns many other well known insurance products including MEDEX assistance and DAS Legal services. DAS, the legal expenses arm of this group, are the biggest Legal Insurance underwriter in the UK and their policies are attached to millions of household and motor policies, as well as offering stand alone commercial and personal legal benefits policies, and running the biggest phone up legal helpline available in the UK. The ETI/DAS legal benefits and helplines are embodied in other membership schemes for shooting sports such as the CPSA. The ETI connection will be historic as new and better cover has now been arranged at Lloyds of London and the resulting new benefits will shortly be posted to our site, although additions such as hospital benefit and legal expenses may still be covered by the ETI sub-products. Combined benefits through master policies covering different insurance benefits through sub-policies is normal and commonplace in the market.

 

All documentation is produced and supplied by the underwriters, with the broker providing liaison to ensure that it provides the information customers require, but ultimately, the seller interface cannot and does not provide anything that is not produced by the FSA registered source of cover. All organistaions receive their own advice about FSA compliance in respect of their own schemes market place where an insurance benefit is included in a members organisation under a master policy, and it is not the job of one organisation to comment in a public forum on the compliance requirements another organistaion requires or applies.

 

Two years study and advise went into what we at CCC3 do, and all our advisers and providers are properly qualified and highly experienced.

 

The Directors of CCC3 fully support the need for, and the good work provided by existing Country Activity membership bodies and do not seek to compete with them, but do seek to provide an affordable product to the estimated 3,000,000 persons engaged in country sports without membership to one of the other organisations.

 

We are happy to answer any queries addressed to us through our website, and welcome feedback to ensure our scheme makes the Country Side a better place to be.

 

Jerry Parks Young

Director Country Cover Ltd

Edited December 11, 2008 by clayman

[winchester]

Dave the FACT still remains that there is a BIG HOLE there that needs filling by a good insurance irelivent of cost to protect BASC MEMBERS and the future of shooting

I woudnt care if it was £100 per anum aslong as if fills that void, and no one else secums to police tactis of walk in take your guns and you on pure bULL heresay and there isnt didly you can do about it without it costing £1000s

I THINK ITS IN BASC best interest to fill this void and protect there members PROPERLY dont you agree

[peter-peter]

contact clayman

[Willow32]

To be honest there is no point in an organization offering an insurance only policy - as the organizations exist to protect shooting or their specific part of shooting, or country sports in general - to starve the association of cash is thus counter productive.

 

You would not be starving your association from cash....you would not gain or lose by offering them the insurance price you get it at , so who protects the shooters..........if you protect shooting or their specific part of shooting

 

Why stagger the cost of joining any of the organizations? It does not make financial sense I am afraid- and goes back to point 1 the organizations exist to protect– so please do not starve them of cash.

 

why stagger........of course i got it wrong....we dont want young members or people who are finding it hard to join to pay..........the cash come from people of all walks of life and you can get new members whats the problem......or is it only open to the elite.....

 

Anyway

Merry Christmas

Regards

Willow32

[David BASC]

Jerry thank you very much for that - so can you please now publish a correctly formatted Key Facts document and full policy wording on your site? If not let us know why if you could, ta.

 

PL claims for shooting are in fact very rare, as I have already said on other posts – on average 60 per year out of over 120,000 individuals covered under the BASC policy. Why? Because shooting is VERY safe indeed - we are by default responsible safe people - if we were not then we would not have FAC's or SGC's so from an underwriters point of view we here a pretty safe bet - yes?

 

Nice profit for the insurers – you think how much in premiums and how much to pay out...but what else? I am not sure what ccc3 offers to shooters apart from the insurance cover, or is it just insurance- This is not me having a dig, it is just me asking a question.

 

As I say and say again – you can buy insurance anywhere- and you may well already be covered- so check it out before you pay out for an insurance premium you may not need...

 

Not sure how one identifies a niche for this stand alone product – do shooters honestly care so little for shooting that they just want insurance and do not want to support an association?

 

If you still need insurance then maybe your first port of call really could / should be one of the associations, because not only do you get insurance but all sorts of other relevant benefits – out of interest why would you buy insurance only?. It a bit like buying petrol without bothering to buy a car – or is it just me?

 

Turing now to what the market needs, not withstanding the credibility of DAS et al (and yes I am very familiar with their history, and have no qualms about their product per se) If a shooter has an accident and gets sued by the third party, the shooter needs a policy that will immediately respond and take the problems away. What they DO NOT need in my opinion based on my 13 years experience of dealing with shooting related claims, is a policy / broker / underwriter, that tries immediately to refer the claim to another policy such as home insurance or car insurance for example – will fellow shooters agree yes or no.

 

Now if a shooter needs to make a claim under Legal Expenses – he / she needs to be represented by a lawyer and advocacy that are familiar with firearms law – indeed experts in firearms law who fully appreciate the needs of the shooter and is also fully versed in the policy and practice of the FLO’s etc across the UK. Does the DAS policy coffer this level of cover or not? Certainly based on the experience of one of the forum members this was not the case. but was this just a one off?

 

Now the DAS insurance is well known and very well used in the UK I have no doubt, indeed they are I think the oldest such firm / supplier in the UK – BUT my question is, is the policy offered specifically drafted to cater for the demands and needs of the shooter, OR is it not? Is it the ‘standard’ DAS policy which as you say is appendixes to all sorts of other policies?

 

Let us know

 

Ta

 

David

[David BASC]

Just to answer Willows points if I may - yes we would starve ourselves of cash- take BASC for example – the average cost of membership is about £55 – the cost of the insurance is £10.50 – that leave about £44.50 gross profit to be spent on all the other stuff. If we offered £10 membership, then we would loose out why, cos it costs a few quid just to administer, let alone the £10 that has to be paid away to the broker / underwriter. Like ALL organizations we need to make a gross profit to do what we do!

 

I do not think any of the organizations (even BASC! ) is elite, they all offer discounts for young people, older people, people in groups etc.

 

I have said before, there are several organizations offering membership at all sorts of prices, and there is no reason at all in my opinion why a shooter or country sports person cannot join at least ONE of them, cost is not the issue – so what have an ‘insurance only’ product – to me it makes no sense if you appreciate the bigger picture, that shooting is so much more than just insurance.

 

David