Electric collars?

[Beechessam]

There was nothing hysterical or desperate in my decision to the collar, and if you really read the post I can't guess where you picked that up from. In my experience, the people who have most to say about collars are people who have no experience of their proper use, and no knowledge of the dogs or the handlers for whom they have been very helpful. I don't doubt that many anti-collar critics have been witness to some cruel misuse of the collar, and I've heard some terrible stories, but to condemn collars for that reason alone is like condemning shoes because some people kick their dogs with them. Some other people say that they've tried the collar on their hand and would never inflict that pain on a dog. Yet every weekend they encourage their dog to run headlong into brambles! I also tried the collar on my hand, and could not endure the level which my dog doesn't even notice - dogs have a very different threshold to discomfort than humans.

 

Without knowing the dog and the handler in question, I don't think even the most skilled or 'qualified' person could possibly feel able to pass judgement or condemn the choice to use an electric collar as a training aid.

 

How interesting that you choose to quote me, yet deliberately delete the sentence where I agree that they do have a place in dog training.

 

You then fail to answer the questions I asked.

 

At no point did I condemn collars and those that use them, however to compare shoes and brambles to the collar is very naive.

 

You also question if I really read the thread, well yes I did, but if you feel you must question my integrity please ensure you do so in full possession of the facts and not a general assumption. I also read the thread posted where again you accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being hysterical.

 

http://www.nobs.org.uk/forum/phpbb2/viewto...asc&start=0

 

It seems that you feel you know better than anyone else and if they disagree with you they are hysterical and unreasonable in their views on collars. Read the thread again and the links and you will see why some people question your methods as you clearly ignored advice, use harsh correction unsuccessfully and then used a collar.

 

Once again Mr. Downie, I am not against collars, I feel they have their place. So please if you wish to quote me do so in full and not edited to suit your own personal view and perhaps you would like to answer the question raised.

 

You state that those who disagree do not have a clue.

 

What qualifies you to make this statement, and what do you know of their qualifications skills abilities and achievements? Or was it just another hysterical outburst?

[Al Downie]

It seems that you feel you know better than anyone else and if they disagree with you they are hysterical and unreasonable in their views on collars.

 

I'm not going to rise to it save to say that yes, I do know my dog better than anyone else, and I do have real, working experience of the benefits of an electric collar.

[Beechessam]

I agree that you should know you dog better than anyone.

 

But yet you still decline to answer the question, or do you now withdraw you comments where you claim that those who object are prone to hysterical outbursts and do not have a clue.

 

The statement was not do they know your dog better than you after all, but that they do they have a clue about dogs and collars.

[Al Downie]

I'm simply declining to respond full stop, because you're clearly only interested in tripping me up over the precise definition of the phrase "haven't got a clue". It's a turn of phrase in common use, and I think you're making too much of it and diverting the discussion away from the subject of the thread. If you really want to continue a personal argument, try your luck with a PM, otherwise let's just drop it?

 

Pegleg - I hope you give the collar a go - I've had great results by using it as a way to regain the dog's attention, not as a means of punishment.

[Beechessam]

Pegleg, as has been said in your situation the collar could be e very useful training aid. I hope it works out for you and you get you dog back on the straight and narrow soon.

 

Downie, yes I am prepared to drop it, but perhaps before insulting and calling in to question the abilities and knowledge of other members you should think twice before posting.

 

Refusing to reply, comment or answer the question just leaves you with egg on your face. We are all here to learn and share our experiences, just because you do not share the view of others it does not make them fools. Maybe when you have trained a few more dogs you will see the folly of your earlier mistakes.

 

Time to move on now I think.

[cracker]

May I come to Al's defense here, not as a fellow collar user, but as one who believes he's being impugned for speaking his piece on them? I don't necessarily say Al's way is the correct way but it's a way that's benefited him in moving his dog on. I do say that Al wasn't slanging anyone personally, but again expressing candidly what he knows and has experienced insofar as responses to the e-collar on this site as well as others.

 

Maybe it's been more extreme elsewhere, but I've not seen any torrent of negativity greet the topic here. As for "elsewhere," the same chasm for e-collars as to "do you?" or "don't/won't you?" reaches fever pitch in the US too. It's just that there are practitioners who can demonstrate why the collar is not just as useful training tool but can be more "humane" than "tuning up" a gundog by other means.

 

I have no affiliation with the collar industry, nor as I've said above, do my dogs "sport" e-collars whilst working. It's just that they can be most beneficial in training gundogs--and most detrimental in training gundogs if improperly used. Then again, if I lived in the UK and trained gundogs for working within the parameters of your shooting and fowling, I probably wouldn't require the collar's use.

 

MG

[Beechessam]

I have no objection to anyone sharing experiences, positive and negative.

 

After all how can anyone come to an informed decision when only presented with one side of any argument. The best decisions are usually reached when in possession of all the facts.

 

I do however object to being told that those who disagree with e collars are hysterical people who do not have a clue.

 

AD by his own admission made mistakes and that is why he now needs to use the collar, not much of a problem with that. Show me a trainer who does not make a mistake!!!!

 

But the very people who offered advice to help prevent the issues he has had to address recently with the collar he now claims do not have a clue. Similar claims were made when he received the initial advice he requested.

 

Perhaps if he had taken the initial good advice we may not be here now, who knows.

 

But just because you do not agree with advice it does not mean that those who offer that advice in good faith are clueless.

 

I am more than happy to agree to disagree, I am happy to admit being wrong.

 

But I object to being called hysterical and clueless, being misquoted to suit his aims, when in fact I posted stating that collars do have a place in training in certain circumstances.

 

As I have said time to move on.