Retreaving Problem With Lab

[Jurrasicway]

I have a seven month old Lab who is coming on really well. He carried two pigeons back to me yesterday for the first time, one winged and one dead so I am really pleased that he has "got it".

I am currently trying to teach him direction. He sits, I throw two dummies out, one to his left and one to his right. He will go and get the dummy that I indicate him to go to, however when he retreives he will run straight past me with the dummy in his mouth to the other dummy. Drop the first dummy, pick up the second and bring that back to me....

 

Does anyone know of a cure or something that I can do to make him bring the first one back every time?

 

Thanks

[monkeyboots]

i would just start giving him left retrives till he is doing it 100% then start the same with right retrives and once he is doing that 100% id then try him at the left and right and the same time and if he still does the same then get yourself in a position that the 2nd dummy he has to go for he has to run by you 1st that way you can stop him running by you for the 2nd dummy

Edited September 14, 2009 by monkeyboots

[cracker]

i would just start giving him left retrives till he is doing it 100% then start the same with right retrives and once he is doing that 100% id then try him at the left and right and the same time and if he still does the same then get yourself in a position that the 2nd dummy he has to go for he has to run by you 1st that way you can stop him running by you for the 2nd dummy

 

Puppies are "doing doubles" at 10-12 weeks in the US--not because they're hurried into it, but because multiple marks (three and four retrieves in succession) is what they get at trials and tests, and they have to learn the recall and to "stretch" their memory for where the second, third or fourth bird might fall.

 

I'd bet this has been explained before on this board, but if not:

 

Picture a capital L.

 

L

 

Ideally this L is the corner of a fence or fenced yard. You and the pup are at the hinge of the L outside the fenced yard. You throw a dummy first to your right, down the base of the L, then throw another dummy down the spine of the L. The pup is sent for the second dummy. The fence prevents it from running with the dummy it's picked to the first dummy thrown--it must return to you, or at least try to get past you, to get at the first dummy.

 

D

 

L D

 

In doing this, stop the pup and make it sit and deliver the first dummy picked. The pup will probably be trying to spit the dummy from its mouth and already looking at the first dummy thrown, focussed on it. Send the pup for it using the pup's name as a release to go. Note that you may have difficulty with a youngster not wanting to bring the second dummy back to you--if so you will want to put the pup on a long line or checkcord. And use white dummies--very white--so the pup can clearly see it.

 

With a young pup (again 10-12 weeks) you don't concern yourself with spitting the dummy, you're working on the return with the first dummy and the resend for the second. At your pup's age, I would insist on a clean delivery, including the dog sitting at your side to deliver. Because there's another subtlety at work here: Always send your dog from the side the bird's thrown to. For example, using the two dummies thrown down the L with dummy down the spine as first to be picked, the dog should be sitting at your left side. When it returns with the first dummy, it should be sat on your right side--because the dummy's been thrown to the right. Eventually this becomes a very helpful strategem in "building memory" when sending dogs for multiple marks.

 

Good luck,

 

MG

[Jurrasicway]

Thanks guys, brilliant advice,

Cracker - This is my first ever gun dog and I have only taught him from what I have read in a book (Gundog Training by James Douglas) . It does not mention the dog sitting at my side when it delivers. I have always received the dummy from in front. I did have a problem with the dog spitting it out when it got to me but have corrected this (touch wood) by walking backwards and keeping my eyes looking down. I see from you excellent advice that you get the dog to come to your side to deliver. How did you achieve this and do you think that it is something that I should work on?

[cracker]

Jurassic, you work on it initially, like everything else, with heel and sit commands. The side sit and delivery is necessary in US trials because the dog has to be pointed in the right direction for going out to pick the next bird after delivering the first. You understand I'm talking about triple marks or a quad (four marks) that the dog picks in sequence.

 

So it only stands to reason the sooner you can get the first bird off the dog, the quicker it can go for the second, then the third and possibly fourth. In point of fact, you can send just as fast if you simply take the bird off the dog as it passes in front of you (possibly as your training book advises). But...it's plum ugly to look at (says here) plus the dog will just be moving forward, not running out with purpose from a sitting start. Part of the reason--most of the rationale in fact--that you have the dog heel to your side and sit with its spine aligned directly at where the next bird to be picked has fallen is that it will run a straight line better getting to that bird.

 

Now...this sort of maneuvering might only be a flourish for you, a frippery. But if you think about the obedience that goes into achieving it, and think of it as a way of the dog demonstrating that it's under your control, surely you can see the value. Makes good pictures too

 

 

 

How do you teach it then? Well, I can take a liver titbit between thumb and index finger and wave it in front of the dog's nose and in 10 seconds I've got that *puppy* hypnotized to make a circular walk that ends up at my side, right or left. This is done in a hallway or the kitchen. Afield, when you use this gambit for having the dog lined up to retrieve the second dummy of two thrown, initially you wave your hand like a magic wand as if it still contained the titbit. The dog's nose will follow your hand and the rest of the dog will follow its nose. You'll note that I advised above using a long line or checkcord so as to be able to control the pup initially. Soon the repetition of it gets the idea engrained and the dog makes the side sit delivery (and follow-on send or sends--plural) a matter of course.

 

MG

[cracker]

Oh, and if you want it expounded on better in black and white than what I've offered,

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/093...;condition=used

 

A very good resource.

 

MG

[Jurrasicway]

The dog comes to heal when I snap my fingers so I will try doing this when he is close enough and see if I can get him to my side. I achieved this by holding a *** bit in my hand and clicking my fingers when wanting him to walk to heal so the techniques are similar. I will try and use the hypnotism trick because he does tend to walk a bit ahead when off the lead and I am constantly clicking to call him back. I will update the post in a few weeks and let you know how I am getting on. Again a big thank you for your advice..

[Jurrasicway]

Thanks for the advice guys. Just an update to let you know how I got on. I started with the single retrieve again for a few mornings and then when to the L idea. It worked extremely well and Archie is now doing doubles and triples this morning (one each side and one to go back). Have not cracked the sitting next to me to deliver yet but will work on it. He does deliver to hand though which I am very pleased with.

This morning I actually directed him by making him stop with the stop whistle, look at me and sent him off to my left, then back to find a dummy. Great feeling for the first time.

He has also started retrieving shot pigeons and crows (five so far) with no problem at all.

 

All is good and going well at 8 months. Just hope that I am not doing too much too soon . I have had various advice, some say you can not start too young and others say don't even start until he is 10 months. Too late for the latter I'm afraid

 

Thanks for all of your help