Santlache
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Posts posted by Santlache
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Personal Groomer ?
Do it yourself for heavens sake, I'd only expect that sort of treatment in Kensington and Knightsbridge for all the pampered pooches, certainly not on a working dog.
I have a smooth Russell which I never ever touch except trim the end of her docked tail when it gets a bit whispy.
My two rough bitches I leave during the winter so they end up looking like Gnasher from the Beano, but in the next couple of weeks I'll be able to strip their coats out with a stripping knife which I'll do over two or three sessions.
My Broken dog I don't have to do much to either like the smooth coat bitch, and just do the tail and tidy him up in the summer with the knife.
If they get covered in mud I leave them, it'll fall off their coats once dry. If they roll in fox s-it I put them under a shower but never use soap, just water and give them a good soaking.
Now get down to Pets at home and get yourself a grooming kit, the money you save on the Groomer spend on carts
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I'm very sorry to hear of your sad loss of Jack, my neighbor also lost their Lab this week and she was a lovely dog.
Mickey Rourke, the actor, has said some very moving things about his dog which he has recently lost, the greatest friend he ever had, he said, who was the only constant thing in his life through all the rough times and without doubt helped him pull himself back together.
Dogs are without doubt man's greatest companion and friend.
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Get one food and stick to it. Don't chop and change- her stomach probably can't settle due to all the different things going through her body. She has been through alot by the sounds of it.
Get a biscuit that is light not too rich. Give her a day of rest from food- it wouldn't hurt her (as long as she isn't too underweight). Give her food little and often- it give her stomach time to digest the food properly.
Give it a while but if none of that helps settle her down, it might be a trip to the vets as she could well be allergic to a ingredient in her food!
Good advice and I would say the same myself.
Be careful though as dogs aren't silly, and after being fed Rice and Chicken they may think they are onto a good thing and turn their nose up at dry biscuit, in which case leave it and try again later or the next day when they really start to get hungry.
Chudley's do a sensitive mix for dogs which I used when one of my pups had a similar problem, and initially I started them off with it wet and with some rice mixed in with it. She still has a bit of a squirty bottom occasionally but I now have her on the same food as the rest and they also get human scraps as part of their diet.
The suggestion of bio yogurt is also a good idea and will calm her gut down
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Thanks, Mike.
They are good dogs, the best workers are the two bitches in the middle, daughter and mother, and I'll be breeding from them this year.
They have both won classes at the JRTCGB National Show for me and the nearly all-white one second right also won the drag hunt trial. Both have worked Fox, Bush, Rat and take any legal vermin.
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As far as you are concerned there is no such thing as a parson russell terrier.....
No, what I said was there was no such thing as a Parson Jack Russell.
There are Jack Russell Terriers, and Parson Russell Terriers.
This just shows there is still confusion in the name, even after I have carefully and quite clearly explained it all in several posts. It also just reiterates my point, there is no need to have two dogs, which at present are the same breed, being called by two different names.
It also highlights the foolishness and stupidity of the Kennel Club in allowing such a situation to occur. The Kennel Club Breeders have already ruined the Wire and Smooth Haired Fox Terrier, they will do exactly the same with the Parson Russell.
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As far as you are concerned there is no such thing as a parson russell terrier, yet if you were to ask the kennel club the same question they would tell you there is no such thing as a jack russell.
So really if parson russell terriers should not exist then nor should jack russells as they are exactly the same animal.
It's a bit like are plain crisps just plain crisps or are they ready salted?
Why did some Jack Russell Terrier owners want recognition for the breed, when the main body for the breed, the JRTCGB, were and are today very much against it ?
Money, Fame, a trip once a year to prance around the ring at Crufts ?
It certainly wasn't for the protection or for the good of the breed, but you would have to ask the founders of Parson Russell Club why ?
The Parson Russell Club do recognise the JRTCGB and not so long ago they were offering Kennel Club Registration for any JRTCGB registered dogs, as they know they have not got a good enough gene pool. No member with JRTCGB Registered Dogs as far as I'm aware crossed over.
Parson Russell Terriers are bred to make money,and are sold as pets to people sucked in by the Kennel Club registration, or to show them at Kennel Club Shows. All of the top Russell Terriermen in the UK, many of them internationally respected, use JRTCGB Terriers and not Parsons. I have also never seen a Parson Russell Terrier win any of the hundreds of Working Terrier Shows I've been to up and down the country.
It's a crazy situation to have two names for a breed of dog which are in all intents and purposes the same dog, but I think you know my feelings as a breeder of these dogs where I stand, which is on the side of the JRTCGB and the protection and preservation of the breed as a working dog.
As far as I'm concerned there is no need whatsoever for Parson Russell Terriers, and the existence of such a dog is bad for the breed.
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There is no such dog as a Parson Jack Russell
If you don't understand after what I've written above, and it's not rocket science, then you never will.
The simple fact is that Parson Russell Terriers should not exist, but by doing so in my opinion it can only be bad for the breed.
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Purely an observation, but why have a "Parson Russell Terrier" and a Jack Russell Terrier, with exactly the same breed standard ?
Why not just call them one thing or the other ?
Because the JRTCGB is the oldest club for the breed and who formulated the breed standard for the working dog called the Jack Russell Terrier. The dogs which were to become the Parson Russell Terrier came from the stock of JRTCGB registered dogs.
Because the JRTCGB was against registration of the breed they were not allowed to call them Jack Russell Terriers, but the KC needed a breed standard for the dogs and the only logical one that they could use was that of the JRTCGB, as this is how proper Jack Russell Terriers should look.
Parson Russell Terrier dogs which are Kennel Club Registered are not allowed to be shown at JRTCGB Working Dog Shows as the JRTCGB do not allow them. No JRTCGB registered dog is allowed by the Club to be shown at any KC Shows either.
The JRTCGB was set up to protect the JRT as a working dog, and they feel as a club that by being registered with the Kennel Club, Parson Russell Terriers are bad for the breed and over time they will harm it.
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I had a jack russell as a youth and thought i was a brilliant dog, but really had a mind of its own, So this time gone for a border, What a difference superb little dog, But still like the russell, Hard to believe they all had assosiation with a dandy dinmount! Weird looking dog,
Cracking little Terrier the Border and excellent workers too.
Sadly not many Terriermen use them nowadays but I do know of a couple who do. I think this is primarily down to the cost of them because they are Kennel Club Registered dogs and the price gets hiked, and this is why the Patterdale, Fell, Lakeland and Russells have become the favourite breeds of the Terrierman.
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to be fair your JR's do look more like parsons, due to the longer legs. Not sure on the breed specs but it should almost be a compliment shouldn't it?
Did you read what I've written ?
The Parson Russell Terriers breed standard was taken from the JRTCGB, all proper JRT's have the longer legs because they were originally bred to run with the fox hounds.
Jack Russell Terriers are the original dogs as bred by Parson Jack Russell, Parson Russell Terriers are the same dog but for how long they remain so is a matter for debate, especially considering the way the Kennel Club has ruined so many of the other working breeds.
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There are so many variations in the "breed standard" of Jack Russells that any attempt to differentiate and claim a "sub breed", or anything similar is a bit pointless IMO.
The short legged little teriers, sometimes called Queen Anne Jacks or Irish Jacks, are not proper Jack Russell Terriers.
This type of dog is also sadly what many people think a Jack Russell Terrier is. They are also usually the snappy nasty ones which has got the breed a bad name in some circles.
These smaller Jack Russell looking type terriers first started to appear around World War I, when people realised that they were good little dogs to keep around the house to keep rats and other vermin down. So you then started to get the smaller short legged dogs appearing, which conformation wise are a disaster for the breed of Hunt Terrier known as the Jack Russell.
There is only one breed standard for the Jack Russell Terrier, which was formulated by the JRTCGB and adopted by every Jack Russell Terrier Club in the world. It was also used by the KC when they registered the Parson Russell Terrier.
CHARACTERISTICS. The terrier must present a lively, active and alert appearance. It should impress with its fearless and happy disposition. It should be remembered that the Jack Russell is a working terrier and should retain these instincts. Nervousness, cowardice and over-aggression should be discouraged, and it should always appear confident.
GENERAL APPEARANCE. A sturdy, tough terrier, very much on its toes all the time, measuring between 10" and 15" at the withers. The body length must be in proportion to the height, and it should present a compact, balanced image, always being in solid, hard condition.
HEAD. Should be well balanced and in proportion to the body. The skull should be flat, of moderate width at the ears, narrowing to the eyes. There should be a defined stop but not over-pronounced. The length of muzzle from the nose to the stop should be slightly shorter than the distance from the stop to the occiput. The nose should be black. The jaw should be powerful and well boned with strongly muscled cheeks.
EYES. Should be almond shaped, dark in colour and full of life and intelligence.
EARS. Small “V†shaped drop ears carried forward close to the head and of moderate thickness.
MOUTH. Strong teeth with the top slightly overlapping the lower.
NECK. Clean and muscular, of good length, gradually widening at the shoulders.
FOREQUARTERS. The shoulders should be sloping and well laid back, fine at points and clearly cut at the withers. Forelegs should be strong and straight boned with joints in correct alignment. Elbows hanging perpendicular to the body and working free of the sides.
BODY. The chest should be shallow, narrow and the front legs set not too widely apart, giving an athletic, rather than heavily chested appearance. As a guide only, the chest should be small enough to be easily spanned behind the shoulders, by average hands, when the terrier is in a fit, working condition. The back should be strong, straight and, in comparison to the height of the terrier, give a balanced image. The loin should be slightly arched.
HINDQUARTERS. Should be strong and muscular, well put together with good angulations and hand of stifle, giving plenty of drive and propulsion. Looking from behind, the hocks must be straight.
FEET. Round, hard-padded, of cat-like appearance, neither turning in nor out.
TAIL. Should be set rather high, carried gaily and in proportion to body length, usually about four inches long, providing a good hand-hold.
COAT. Smooth, without being so sparse as not to provide a certain amount of protection from the elements and undergrowth. Rough or broken coated, without being woolly.
COLOUR. White should predominate with tan, black, or brown markings. Brindle markings are unacceptable.
GAIT. Movement should be free, lively, well co-ordinated with straight action in front and behind.
NOTE:
1) Dogs and bitches should be entire and capable of breeding. Dogs should be shown to have both testicles fully descended into the scrotum.
2) Old scars or injuries, the result of work or accident, should not be allowed to prejudice the terrier’s chance in the show ring unless they interfere with its movement or with its utility for work or stud.
3) For showing purposes, terriers are classified into two groups according to their height, which are 10†to 12½†and over 12½†to 15â€.
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The problem you will have with Parson Russell Terriers is that their gene pool is severely restricted to those dogs first registered and their off-spring, and these dogs were mainly JRTCGB dogs anyway and their lines are JRTCGB. All the best JRT Breeders are also JRTCGB, which has a far reaching gene pool over the Parson enabling faults etc to be bred out.
Parson Russell Terriers look like Jack Russell Terriers because that's what they are, but for how long one has to question before their breeding for the show ring ruins the breed ?
Cheers
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Time and time again when I'm out with my dogs people stop and look at them, and quite often they will come up to me and say those dreaded words,
"Are those dogs Parson Russell Terriers ?"
"NO, they are not" I reply, trying to stop myself screaming, "They are Jack Russell Terriers".
As many of you know the Jack Russell Terrier is a type of Terrier which was first bred by Reverend John Russell, a parson and hunting enthusiast born in 1795. In his last year of university at Oxford, he bought a small white and tan terrier female called Trump from the milk man. Trump was purchased based upon appearance alone and she was the basis for a breeding program to develop a terrier with high stamina to run with the hunt hounds, as well as the courage and formation to bolt foxes which had gone to ground.
The Jack Russell Terrier Club of GB (JRTCGB) was formed in 1974 and it's primary aim is to promote and preserve the working terrier known as the Jack Russell Terrier. It's other aim is to protect the Jack Russell Terrier as a true working terrier and to preserve the rights of the working terrier enthusiast to work the terrier in the traditional manner.
In the 1980's a group of people with JR Terriers wanted to gain recognition of the breed by the Kennel Club in GB. However, the JRTCGB was strongly against this as the Kennel Club had no in-breeding policy, but also felt the dog would be then bred for the show ring and not for it's working ability.
These people broke away and went ahead in gaining recognition of the breed by the KC, but they weren't allowed to call the dogs Jack Russell Terriers because of the JRTCGB, so they named them Parson Russell Terriers. The Kennel Club also used the JRTCGB Breed Standard for all the dogs they accepted.
Ironically, Parson John Russell was also one of the founding members of the Kennel Club, yet never at any point did he try to gain recognition for his new breed of Terrier.
All my dogs are registered with the JRTCGB, the club for the genuine Jack Russell Terrier, and I have their pedigrees going back six generations of good working Russell stock.
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Food.
Does she like food, quite likely and you can do this indoors to start with but they need to have a collar on.
Find a tasty snack that she simply adores, then if necessary when you first start have her restrained and go to a different room and call her.
When she comes, and she will because she's inquisitive, bend down to greet her and take her collar, then at the same time with your other hand give her a nibble of her favourite treat.
Do it again, and again, a few times and at various stages during the day, and at all times give her plenty of praise and each time handle to collar before the treat is given. This is so that if you wish you have her under your control at this point.
Then after a while when she knows she's going to get a treat, don't give her one but pretend to with an empty hand and just give her the praise, plenty of it as well and remember to handle the collar. Next time give her a treat again, and again, then leave it out again.
It's important to use the same command every time, so she associates that command to coming to you and getting a treat. You can add a whistle or whatever to the command at a later stage and they'll soon pick that up.
Then move it into the field with a stretchy lead, let her run it out and then give the command and repeat as indoors.
You got it, let her off the lead and carry on, when she comes back do the same and as she has been used to you handling the collar first since you started, you can slip the lead on at any time if you need to.
A tip when you first go outside, don't walk a straight line, turn back on yourself in the opposite direction quite frequently so the dog isn't leading you. The other tip is, initially think of the treats as part of her food and take it out of her daily allowance, otherwise you'll end up with a very fat dog.
Cheers
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With all respect I beg to disagree, Rick.
Whenever I judge Working Terriers at Hunt and Country Shows, when a dog enters the ring it's colour is of no interest to me whatsoever as long as it conforms to the breed standard.
My Jack Russell Terriers as a breed should be at least 51% white - hardly good for blending in with the cover unless it's weather like today and almost a white-out. They are also used for work on every continent and in all climates from Sweden in Winter to the heat of Australia and South Africa.
All white dogs are not much use in hot climates as they tend to lack pigment in the skin, and on hot days it causes a reddening around the eyes which can get quite sore and irritable.
As to picking the one in the litter you like the look of..........
I almost did that many years ago when I got my first Russell, the chap who bred it was an internationally respected Terrierman and he said no, you'll be wanting this one, trust me, it's a better dog. The one I wanted wouldn't work and ended up being sold as a pet to an old lady, whereas the one I took has worked to Fox for me and is a good busher and ratter. He has also won me seven Working Terrier Championships and I've also bred a JRTCGB National Show winning pup from him too.
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I'm sorry to say but 'Well Respected' trainers and breeders are often the one's in the past doing this sort of thing.
I sincerely hope this is not the case, and is not him beginning to realise that he has done something rather wrong and has 'changed' the pedigree so it doesn't look like an in-breeding job. It wouldn't be the first time and is quite easy to get away with unless blood tests are taken from the Dam and Sire.
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Webley bolt action for sale, single shot.
It is very tidy with a perfect bore the bluing is very good and its great fun to shoot.
It has got an unusual stock not like any other i have seen, its quite a long stock.
£90 collected from Huddersfield.
Price reduced
Is it still available ?
Cheers
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B)
Real dogs eat ..........
I never knew you had a Terrier
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You start off well, Rick, spot on and I couldn't agree more - "Pick the breeding and the Pup will follow"
Then I'm afraid you fall apart and completely loose it at the end.
Colour is purely cosmetic on a dog and has no influence on whether it'll be a good working dog or not.
The same for cuteness, all pups are cute and that has no relation to which animal will be any good.
You take complete pot luck with a Pup, so all you can do is look at the breeding and check that all the vital bits are in order which I mention above. Then cross your fingers and hope it'll turn into a good 'un with some hard work from you.
Any breeder who says to you, "That'll be a good little worker" is talking utter nonsense, as they haven't any more of a clue than you if it'll turn out OK or if it'll be rubbish when it's eventually taken in the field.
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Steer well clear, at five weeks old they are too young to tell if anything untoward is wrong with them.
However, this is the Kennel Club for you, they had no inbreeding policy and this is why we see all the problems we have in dogs today with dodgy breeding like mentioned above, and in some cases sons over mothers and brothers over sisters.
In the working dogs classes at Crufts it's plainly obvious that most of them would drop dead if they had to do a day's work and the breeders are continually messing about with them. The modern breeding of the Fox Terrier is a classic example, they are huge nowadays and would never get down an earth, Labradors and Retrievers are getting bigger and chunkier and the list goes on and on.....
If you look at some old hunting and shooting books from the turn of the lst century up to the 50's really, many working breeds look very different to what they do today, and it's the Kennel Club and breeders who breed for the show ring and not the dog's working ability who are at fault.
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i have a 9 month old bitch which i feed burns dog food at the mo. but this is to expensive and so want to change.
Can any one surgest a good but cheap brand, and which is best a musil or biscuit?
I have always used Chudleys, made by Dodson and Horrell who have a royal appointment for horse feeds/supplies etc.
They have an excellent range of dog food with several different types for working dogs at around £15-20 for 15Kg bags.
I use Chudleys Snippets for my Terriers, which is a terrier size biscuit but they do all different ranges for all the working breeds. The ingredients are almost identical to IAMS and the other fancy brands at a third of the price.
I've tried cheaper brands at £10-12 for 15 Kgs but the dogs have never got on with them. I also always give mine our leftover scraps, fresh fruit and occasionally I give them small amounts of fresh meat like lambs heart as a treat.
I know people who just feed their dogs on tripe and swear by it.
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Personal choice or not here's a few points I always look for in Terriers but it applies for any breed really.
Gait:
Look at the pups walk, do they walk straight, and from the rear check if the legs kick out at all. Is the movement in the hips OK.
Get behind the pup and hold them up with the back legs on the ground and both the front legs up and forward so you are looking directly onto them - are the legs and paws straight.
Are the legs in proportion to the body for the breed.
When standing straight are the legs evenly spaced apart, and not bow or too tight into each other.
Head:
Size is a matter of taste in all breeds but again should be in proportion to the body, so not too big and also not too small.
Eyes
Bright, alert and healthy looking.
Teeth,
Difficult to judge in a pup but even at this age you can check the jaw for a level bite, or if they have an under or over shot jaw.
Top Line:
This is the same for most breeds and a common fault, look at the dog standing upright with it looking forward, from the bottom of the neck to the tail should be a straight line down the back, it should not dip down and then come back up again to the tail.
Coat:
Again difficult to tell so young and it depends also on the breed, but in all cases it should be healthy looking with no sparse areas.
Ears:
This may seem odd but each breed has different types of ears, i.e. Terriers should not stand straight up but tilt over halfway.
Attract the pups attention, does it respond to noises OK.
Tails:
Docked breeds should be done between 3-5 days so it'll be too late if they haven't been done. If intact they should have no kinks but each breed has a separate ideal setting regarding the tail and how it should sit.
For docked breeds they should be a good hand hold. For Terriers they should carry it straight up, forming a right angle between the back and the tail. Borders which aren't docked should sit straight out from the back in a line, like an extension to it's top line.
Dogs:
Can you feel two balls, they won't have dropped yet but they should just about be there tucked up inside.
Few dogs are perfect, but looking at all these points is a good starter to finding the best pup in a litter. It should be done as late as you possibly can with the breeder as the older they are the better it is to check these points for any faults and make a choice.
Cheers
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A terrier is a terrier, so the dog should have that hunting instinct anyway, although she'll probably not be as quick as your previous Russell so will be handicapped on that score.
I'm a great believer in the fact that not all dogs will work and a dog should never be pushed into doing something it doesn't want to do, because more often than not it will ruin it. If a dog wants to work it will, and if it does show that keenness then it's up to you to bring it on responsibly, with plenty of encouragement and praise when they do things correctly.
When my youngest bitch was just starting to come on I'd take her down the fields with her mother and they would work the edge of the Rape. At the time there was a bit of Mixi about, which in a way was ideal as she soon got the idea of what to do and was hoovering them up. This was at four 1/2 months and a couple of weeks later she then took her first squirrel, which quite amazed me how quickly she dispatched it but she'd learnt how to do it on the rabbits.
Same with Rats, once they get their first one there's usually no turning back and they are as keen as mustard to do it again.
The only problem you may have after is that if it's a family pet, she could then start to treat every outing like a hunt, as she'll see all small rodents and fluffy things as fair game.
Good luck in bringing her on.
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For the record, chaps, there is no such bird as a Seagull, they are Gulls - Herring, Black-Backed etc etc.
When I was in the RAF we shot them occasionally, as they tend to make a nasty mess of a jet engine if they fly into one.
One of the first jobs before the airfield opened for business each day was to get rid of all the Gulls/Crows/Lapwings by any means possible, and it always took a good hour or so firing cartridges, playing distress calls and even trying to run them over, although we never managed it.
Nasty ******* some of them, and big too, I found an injured one once and my Terriers wouldn't go near it with that huge beak lashing out in all directions. It's wing was knackered and bent back so I assume it must have flown into overhead cables or something so we dispatched it.
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What about if you have Pet insurance? Would they still cover you if you did not have your dog boostered and it died of parvo?
df
Very good point, I bet they wouldn't be covered and there's probably some clause written in somewhere on up to date vaccinations and boosters etc.
Hell of a long day
in Dogs and Dog Training
Posted
Sunday lunchtime.
Not feeling too bright I decided to take the dogs down the fields I have permisson on for a quick run out then home, but the day didn't quite turn out as expected.
At about 1-15pm I lost my smooth Russell bitch, she'd got through a fence to the field opposite and had found the Fox earth I was trying my best to keep them away from. I had a feeling she would have gone there so made my way over with my other bitch and sure as hell she was onto something and I could hear her baying below.
With no location collar on I'd have to wait until she reappeared.
After two hours it went silent, it's quite an extensive earth so I wasn't too concerned at that point.
After five hours I was starting to get a little worried as I had not heard her for 3 hours and it was starting to get dark. So I rang my local Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club area rep and he got two fellow members local to me, Alan and Jonathan, to come over and give me a hand. They arrived about 8-30pm and we right away collared up a nice little Russell bitch and down she went.
She was initially onto a rabbit so we dug her out and tried one of the other entrances and within a minute she was still below ground. The location said 4 feet down so we pushed a hole down with a T bar and with your ear to the ground we could hear both dogs baying away merrily.
Down we dug, and after 10-15 minutes my bitch came out first followed by the other, so we collared up another bitch and set her down to find the fox again. The other dog was straight onto to the fox so we dug down again and pulled her out. The vixen had retreated into a dead end chamber and had three cubs with her, so we backfilled the original hole and left her there in peace so she could move them out after we'd gone.
A text book dig but one I'd rather not have done. All the dogs did a superb job especially my bitch, who had worked the fox for almost eight hours and all she had on her was a scratch mark above the eye. Although annoyed and at the same time relieved, I was very proud of the way she'd done her work.
This is not an advert or promotion, but the Fell and Moorland Working Terrier Club do a Terrier Rescue service for dogs trapped below ground and one I never thought I'd have to use. But partly through my own stupidity I did have a need to use it and the ten pound a year membership is the best insurance one could buy.
Alan and Jonathan came back to my place after and we sat for a couple of hours chatting over some beers telling each other stories, thanks again chaps, and at the next club meeting next month I will be making a donation to the club.
Cheers