.410 Brass cartridges

[Daveo26]

Alright lads i need some advice,

I Have 25 new 2 1/2" brass shotshells, A box of large pistol primers, A tub of 'lil gun some no.7 shot and a load of overshot cards!!!!

No wads, i was told i can use .44 black powder wads???

I want to make some underpowered (quiet) cartridges for pest control purposes, rats and feral pigeons.

I want Around 1/2 oz of shot,

Has anyone got any load data or experiance with this sort of thing?

Can i use cork to make wads?

Cheers Dave.

[MC]

I have got some recipes for .410 loads but not using l'il gun powder.

[Andy H]

If your black powder wads are a tight fit they should be alright to use the recomended size is.430" card and felt/cork and .450" overshot card, If i can sort my laptop out i will send you a link which tells you how to load the brass magtec cartridges.

[Andy H]

have a look here for lil gun 410 data http://data.hodgdon.com/shotshell_load.asp

 

this place sells the oversize wads and cards http://www.wadsincorporated.com/home/

 

And here is a post off of cast boolits forum,

 

Okay, if loading 410 Mag-Tech Brass is what your going to do the following is my suggestions organized in a somewhat logical thought flow:

 

Depriming is done easily and efficiently with a universal depriming die and the same shell holder number for 303-brit. on a regular metallic reloading press. The Mag-Tech brass takes large pistol primers just pop them out with the universal depriming die just like any other brass case. The RMC reloading kit will not work to deprime Mag-Tech brass their kit has a large diameter punch nose designed to punch out the much larger standard 209 shotgun primers.

 

Sizing is also best done on a metallic reloading press. The best option I have found for doing this is the Lee brand name 45-ACP factory crimp & carbide post sizing die.

 

This is a die that is designed to both apply a crimp to 45-ACP rounds and also has a carbide ring in it that is slightly larger diameter then a standard 45-ACP size die which is ground to the maximum external size according to SAAMI specs. The idea is that sometimes with a thick walled brass case and slightly oversize bullet, especially when using cast lead bullets the diameter of the case will bulge where the bullet is seated to a point where the finished cartridge will not chamber in a minimum size 45-ACP chamber. The post size carbide ring takes care of this.

 

Well the size that that carbide ring is ground to just happens to be absolutely perfect for sizing 410 full length metallic cases in addition when you unscrew the crimp adjusting *** on top and remove the guts of the die then it is completely open and a big long metallic 410 case slips right through and there is not length interference encountered.

 

For regular routine sizing you again use the same shell holder size as for a 303-brit. This sizes everything except for the bottom 1/8" or so where the head of the brass hull is.

 

Over time and especially with some guns it may become necessary to size the head of the hull as well. To accomplish this you simply tape or glue a dime to the top of the shell holder and re-adjust the die in the press so that when the ram is all the way up the top of the rim on the bottom of the full length metallic hulls just kisses the bottom of the carbide ring of the die. Extraction of the case is performed simply and effectively by a short length of 3/8" wood dowel and a rubber mallet from the top of the press.

 

So in this way the full length metallic cases can be fully sized all the way down to the rim if necessary and not be oversized down too small like using a rifle sizing die such as the 444-Marlin for example will do overworking the metal of the hull and leading to a much shorter reload life cycle. Due to the fact you are using a carbide die for sizing no case lube is necessary.

 

Priming is accomplished simply and easily by the same method as one would use to seat large rifle primers in a 303-brit case. Use the same shell holder size and just use large pistol primers instead. Prime on the press at the bottom of the stroke, ram prime, hand primer tool, or whatever it all works just like regular metallic cartridge priming.

 

Powder Charge ~ just skim some 2-1/2" 410-bore plastic case reloading data and take your pick. The Mag-Tech brass hulls are slightly stronger then any plastic hull. Pick the highest charge listed for your particular choice of powder regardless of primer/hull/wad selection and keep the shot weight the same. If any of the plastic hulls can take the charge the Mag-Tech brass can take it. However, don't get too cocky, the Mag-Tech brass is balloon head and thus is only slightly stronger then plastic hulls and thus can take anything they can take but don't start jacking up the charge levels above and beyond plastic case levels - they won't take a whole lot more then plastic cases.

 

Wad Columns ~ There are basically two ways to load the Mag-Tech hulls when it comes to wads. The first way is to take a 0.430" diameter 1/8" thick nitro card and press it into place over the powder charge, a standard plastic shot wad on top of that, your shot charge, and finally a 0.450" overshot card either crimped, glued, or waxed into place. The use of a 0.430" diameter card over the powder and under the plastic wad is absolutely necessary because the brass walls of the Mag-Tech hulls are much thinner then plastic shells and thus the internal diameter of the hulls is greater then 0.410" and thus the gas seal cup on the bottom of conventional plastic wads will not produce an initial seal that's worth jack-**** without the oversize nitro underneath it to provide the initial seal until the payload clears the hull, chamber, and forcing cone and is on it's way down the barrel. This is one of the primary problems with using Mag-Tech brass. The even larger 0.450" overshot cards are also necessary because the walls of the Mag-Tech hull are even thinner at the mouth of case. As far as which plastic wad to use, it doesn't matter at all with the Mag-Tech hulls because none of the gas seal cups on any of the conventional plastic shot wads are going to seal anyway until they are past the forcing cone and into the barrel. Buy whatever American style wad is the most available and cheapest in your area. Do not use the Gualandi or other European style plastic 410-bore wads, their high efficiency deep pocket gas seals do not work with the oversize, over-powder nitro cards that are necessary with the larger internal diameter of Mag-Tech brass hulls.

 

The second method of loading the Mag-Tech hulls is to forget the plastic wad altogether. For such loads you again place a 0.430" diameter 1/8" thick nitro over the powder and then you need a felt, cork, or fiber cushion/bore-cleaner wad on top of that. For such loads I personally prefer a 0.430" diameter 1/4" thick waxed felt wad. This is followed by the shot charge; such a load has a completely unprotected shot charge that scrubs against the barrel with no protection from shot-cup petals for that reason very hard and/or copper or nickel plated shot is highly preferred. That non-toxic bore safe "Nice-Shot" also works for such loads very well, unfortunately it's extremely expensive. Of course this is also followed up by a 0.450" diameter overshot card crimped, glued, or waxed into place.

 

Wad Pressure ~ Use a 3/8" wood dowel and a rubber head mallet to tightly seat the 0.430 diameter 1/8" thick nitro card that goes directly over the powder charge. Seat the plastic wad or 1/8" to 1/4" thick felt, cork, or fiber cushion/bore-cleaner wad on top of the nitro-card with hand pressure only. Use a 5/16" or 1/4" dowel for a plastic wad and the same 3/8" dowel if using a felt, cork, or fiber cushion/bore-cleaner wad.

 

Methods of Securing the Overshot Card ~ One very simple and easy way to accomplish this is to simply roll the edge of the overshot card along the top of a glue stick from the craft section of your local box store. I'm not talking about the hot glue sticks but the glue sticks that come in screw up cartridges like chap stick. This method will leave a slight band at the mouth of the case of left-over glue and paper fiber that will build up over several reloads to a point where it has to be scraped out with a pen knife but is otherwise a very good method.

 

You can also insert the over-shot card and then crimp it in place with a roll crimp usually applied via a 45-Colt or similar metallic reloading die. I personally strongly dislike this method because then my brass hulls don't last near as long and crack at the mouth rather quickly and I don't get near as many reloads out of them.

 

You can also insert the overshot card and then hold it in place with some kind of glue or wax concoction placed on top of the overshot card and beveled into the edges with a swirl of the finger-tip and left to dry. There are many different things that can and have been used for this purpose ranging from water-glass to various glues to calking to finger-nail polish to various waxes. Some of which I strongly feel are not such good things to be putting down one's barrel or are so tough and bulky (such as using calking) that they tend to adversely affect patterns.

 

Personally I heat up generic electricians’ wire pulling lube in a double boiler and melt a couple glue sticks into it to give it more tackiness and then keep boiling it down to a paste like consistency. That electricians’ wire pulling lube stuff is made up of silicon and Teflon based lubricants suspended in a wax base add the glue and it works for me and only a tiny dap is required to bevel in the edges and I'm not worried about it hurting my barrel since it's primarily a lubricant.

[Daveo26]

WOW thats spot on, Mr H your a good man. Thank you