badsworth Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 A really exceptional example of this lovely little Belgian 'Poachers Gun'. 24" octagonal to round Barrel. Colour Hardening to action. Good woodwork and excellent bore. Probably 3/4 or full choke. Exact age unknown - but this kind of folding gun was popular from around 1895 to 1950. Bought three years ago from 'Modern and Antique Firearms' of Tuckton, Bournemouth for my 13 year old son. It is as light as a feather and has virtually no re-coil. Shoots beautifully, though it has had very few rounds through it. An ideal starter or ladies gun, but also a nice collector's piece. It is the best example of one of these you are ever likely to find. Usual SGC rules apply. £200.00. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dinodad Posted February 19, 2010 Report Share Posted February 19, 2010 Hello, Do you know what proof and max size load it can take, Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted February 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 Hello, Do you know what proof and max size load it can take, Cheers I will post something about the proof marks later. It won't take 3" cartirdges but will work fine with Eley 'Fourlong'. Eley 'Fourlong' say on the box that they are two and a half inch - but actually if you measure them they are two and a quarter. I have never tried any other two and a half inch cartridges. I am getting a lot of interest in the gun so I will be putting on some more pictures later. At the moment I am taking my son (now 16) for his first part time job interview. B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleeh Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I will post something about the proof marks later. It won't take 3" cartirdges but will work fine with Eley 'Fourlong'. Eley 'Fourlong' say on the box that they are two and a half inch - but actually if you measure them they are two and a quarter. I have never tried any other two and a half inch cartridges. That's not how it works. They are 2.25 inch long, but the measurement of a cartridge includes the size of the crimp once it's come out. You are getting away with shooting cartridge that the gun isn't proofed for, by way that it is only a .410. (More or less every single last belgium .410 is for 2'' cartridges) Taking the practice of shooting too long cartridges in something bigger (say a 12b) - the expanding crimp, and the shot pushing through, will introduce stress to parts of the gun that arn't made to take it, and can lead to dents, and even splits in the barrel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted February 20, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 I have had a number of enquiries about this gun, so here are some more photographs. I have had specific questions about what it is proofed for. The dealer I bought it from ('Gillie' Howes, of 'Modern and Antique Fireams') said it was for two, and two and half inch cartridges. I know that Eley Fourlong fit and can be fired successfully . I have fired a handful through it. However, I have received a comment from a contributor on one of the gun sites that these kinds of guns are only proofed for 2" carts. I am afraid I don't know enough about proof marks to tell, so I am attaching photographs of the proof-marks so that some learned bod on this site can offer an opinion. Until and unless someone can offer better advice I am offering this gun as being suitable for 2" cartridges. I am also attaching some pictures of the woodwork and colour hardening. The item on the end of the barrel is an extension - carried out by 'Gillie' Howes. Many guns of this type have barrels only 23" long and are therefore Section 1 Firearms (though many owners don't realise this until an enthusiastic young copper gets out the tape-measure!). So as not to overload this site with big picture files I am also providing some links to other pictures stored on 'Photobucket'. http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0008.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0009.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0010.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0011.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0012.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0013.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0014.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0015.jpg http://i9.photobucket.com/albums/a72/badsw...un/DSC_0006.jpg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach369 Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 According to the proof marks this gun has been proofed for 65mm / 2.5" cartridges. It would have been subject to reproof after the barrel extension was fitted. Hope this helps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 20, 2010 Report Share Posted February 20, 2010 From those proof marks it looks like the gun is only proofed for Black Powder, another problem with old Belgian .410's. As for firing cartridges that are too long, they wont cause dents in the barrel but will cause bulges. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach369 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 From those proof marks it looks like the gun is only proofed for Black Powder, another problem with old Belgian .410's. I'll have to disagree....... The last picture on the thread (not the links) shows the following proof marks from Birmingham: 10.6 BNP 410 65 950 BAR Guess what BNP stands for ? That's right : Birmingham Nitro Proof. Used after 1954 to the present day This gun is proofed for Nitro/Smokeless loads Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Thank you folks - I have learned a lot! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fortune82 Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 Fair does! My eyesight aint good enough! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SHOOTEMUP Posted February 21, 2010 Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I Have been told that barrel extensions are no loger accetable and the gun is still classed as a sec 1 ie a short barrelled shotgun? Please correct me if I am wrong but it was the police that stated this following the 1988 Firearms act?:blink:? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
badsworth Posted February 21, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 21, 2010 I Have been told that barrel extensions are no loger accetable and the gun is still classed as a sec 1 ie a short barrelled shotgun?Please correct me if I am wrong but it was the police that stated this following the 1988 Firearms act?:blink:? This gun was inspected by our (Dorset) FEO on Tuesday as partof my routine renewal - he was happy! B Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loach369 Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 I Have been told that barrel extensions are no loger accetable and the gun is still classed as a sec 1 ie a short barrelled shotgun?Please correct me if I am wrong but it was the police that stated this following the 1988 Firearms act??:good: Not true. Any class of shotgun, including Section 5 pump actions/ self loaders ie Ithaca 37 Trench Guns and Franchi SPAS 12's can be brought to legal Section 1 or 2 spec by the addition of a permanent barrel extension being fitted which brings the barrel length to over 24" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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