gsp retrieving

[mereside]

hi guys as some of you know i have a gsp who i have been training for deer and have now started on retrieving now he is good and will retrieve dummy great on his return i have been using the whistle which again he seems to have cracked but on giving the dummy he has started to do a little circle as if hes going to retrieve again but as soon as i give the back command he comes by my side and sits but i have to give a command as soon as the dummy is to hand . i dont want this to get out of hand do i need to go to a long lead and pull back as soon as he moves off. all thaughts greatly recieved atb wayne.

[kent]

Sounds strange, is it bringsel trained? this might explain it very quickly. The way your using "back" confuses me is this basically what you are using for "here" or have i misunderstood? "back" is normally used to send a dog facing you on the drop out at say 12 o'clock you see, it dont realy matter mind it just makes your explaination of whats happening hard to understand.

 

All i can suggest is are you rewarding the dog before you actually take the retrieve from the dog- you should be, is it therefore seeking your approval after a snatched retrieve perhaps? Does it happen if you send it a long way for a memory retrieve? the dog might be on a high if they are all 30 yd jobs? Perhaps its waiting / encouraging you to chuck another? One too see i feel

[cracker]

Don't know what "back" command you're on about - that's usually a send-out word for a blind retrieve.

 

If you mean "back" as in back by your side delivering a retrieve - and if you ever intend to use "Back!" (Note the cap B and exclamation point)in the traditional sense, you need to change the command for the dog coming to you. Come (obviously) or "Here!" (again note cap H and exclamatory). Wouldn't be bothered if you have to repeat "Here!" once or twice as the dog's nearing you - they're creatures of habit and if it makes the straight delivery 5-6 times with your encouragement (repeated command), it'll soon learn that your side for delivery is the destination you desire.

 

Good luck,

 

MG

[WGD]

How big a circle are we talking about here?

 

If he just moves around your feet a bit and sets himself up to be sent again it's no big deal IMO, unless of course he disappears off hunting of his own accord but that's not what you've described.

 

Can we establish what the problem is before starting to decipher your commands and terminology!

[mereside]

firstly thanks for all your replys,

right guys on giving me the dummy to hand he automatically turns as if to run out on another retrieve although he has a second thaught and does a like a 1.5mtr circle in front of me. my commands i have been using have really stemmed from his obedience ie while walking if he moved infront of me i would use "back" as in get back i would automatically stop and pull back so now everytime i say "back" he stays inline with me. so on his retrieves when he does this little circle i say back he comes around my side and sits when i ask .i use here with two pips on the whistle and he comes straight back but always with this little twirl at the end i wanted to try and correct this as i feel it might progress into running off for another retieve. i have been mixing things up ie direction of the dummy ,long and short retrieves ,me retrieving while he sits and waits also retrieves in the dark and thick cover. so just to go through my commands

sit

wait

back as in get back

here for when hes retrieving on coming back with two pips on the whistle

lastly this gsp wasnt trained at all he came from foriegners who neglected him and he didnt understand anything at all he is coming on so well and really does like to please can be very stubborn but i here thats these dogs anyway thanks again for your help,wayne also if it helps you all i could video what im doing and what tommys doing if that helps

Edited November 12, 2011 by mereside

[straightbarrel]

The commands sound a bit disjointed to me mate and possibly confusing for the dog but maybe not?

 

If I were you I would get him retrieving up a narrow alley with very little room either side and spread yourself open when he returns with the dummy.

keep on with it for a few sessions and see how he goes. Move to a slightly wider place for the next sessions, again, see how he goes and if all is ok try him again, moving into wider areas slowly until you are back to open fields. Get him into the habit of returning straight back to you and reward him for it.

 

Why dont you just sit him up on returning with the dummy?

Edited November 12, 2011 by straightbarrel

[mereside]

thanks for that i will give that a go i will also get him to sit straight away i think that will work. i dont think hes confused i think he is just wanting to be off after the next one. in the kennels the only way the staff could get him to rest was throw balls for him and as soon as he came back it would be lobbed again and again .i think hes thinking this is the same .i will let you know how i get on thanks,wayne

[kent]

thanks for that i will give that a go i will also get him to sit straight away i think that will work. i dont think hes confused i think he is just wanting to be off after the next one. in the kennels the only way the staff could get him to rest was throw balls for him and as soon as he came back it would be lobbed again and again .i think hes thinking this is the same .i will let you know how i get on thanks,wayne

 

Yep you got it, the dog sounds like a "chuck it nut". Try keeping on memory retrieves perhaps a while. BTW a Deer dog should walk with its rear legs level with yours not in the traditional heel posision, especially if its a HPR. Have you got this sorted ? it just sounded like your version of "back" is heel as i cannot see how you could or even want to reach that far forwards for a retrieve.

 

As your training for deer and conventional gun work try this drill

 

Walk with your dog in the correct slightly forward posision and drop a dummy infront a few yards so it is seen. Walk pass by the dummy (the dog to remain steady) get as far away as possible and signal the dog to lie down, walk past the dogs location and send it backwards for the dummy. A tap of the stick on its bum is a good silent signal for the lie down and stay and is a great thing to have in a stalking dog. It might also get you away from the "chuck it again boss routine"

[mereside]

thanks kent yes his heel work is good he has always been a little in front ie middle of the body i think this has been his natural position for winding apart from when i got him he would pull like a freight train but we are sorted now . when we first started on the dummy he would automatically run in as if he was after a ball but we soon got past that his sit work was a tough one as soon as i would turn away he would tiptoe behind and sit when i turned round we have now got past that stage and he now sits and waits till i tell him i can retrieve myself without him moving and rethrow the dummy he doesnt falter at all its just this thing hes started doing.i cannot tell you enough how much he has come on since i got him i am well chuffed were out twice a day training and most weekends stalking been out this afternoon on the does hes as happy as larry,atb wayne ps kent i will put that into his routine thanks once again for all your help

[arwen3513]

I would try for a sit delivery in front, or a obedience delivery such as the dog goes round the back of the handler and sits at heel position. You could use Out as a command to push the dog further back for a retrieve. Jan

[kent]

thanks kent yes his heel work is good he has always been a little in front ie middle of the body i think this has been his natural position for winding apart from when i got him he would pull like a freight train but we are sorted now . when we first started on the dummy he would automatically run in as if he was after a ball but we soon got past that his sit work was a tough one as soon as i would turn away he would tiptoe behind and sit when i turned round we have now got past that stage and he now sits and waits till i tell him i can retrieve myself without him moving and rethrow the dummy he doesnt falter at all its just this thing hes started doing.i cannot tell you enough how much he has come on since i got him i am well chuffed were out twice a day training and most weekends stalking been out this afternoon on the does hes as happy as larry,atb wayne ps kent i will put that into his routine thanks once again for all your help

 

You will find it usefull if you need to go forward and look down a ride without the dog poking his nose out too far or get into a forward posision for a shot (centrefire rifles will deafen a dog real quick)

[mereside]

thanks guys starting to put things into practice going out again tonight ,kent i have him by my side sitting when im taking my shots and while stalking everytime i stop i have him sit so i can glass before moving off atb,wayne will try and get some footage of him on video.i did his first proper stalk and track it looked great and on the way home we stopped to film some red stags and i hadnt put the tape forward and recorded over nearly all his tracking i was well p''sed off