Home Defence - Burglars beware !!!

[GHE]

My take on this is simple.

The police have a duty to investigate all actual and suspected crimes, I have never said otherwise.

But what I am saying is that the should make a distinction between scum who commit crimes as part of their normal life and respectable people who are forced to defend themselves and/or their family when the scum attack them. They should treat them as victims, not as an opportunity to get a conviction.

 

Of course everyone needs to be questioned, and of course if there is more than one person involved or if there are witnesses, they must be separated and interviewed separately.

 

But IMO there is absolutely no need to treat victims of crime as criminals. The Ferrie's were arrested and held in the cells for 3 whole days, even though the police knew, for nearly all of that time, that the two men he had shot were known criminals.

 

Why did they need to detain them for 3 days?

 

The short answer was that they didn't, they only needed to detain them long enough to take a statement from each of them, and to carry out a search of the crime scene. It suited the police to mistreat them in this way, but it wasn't necessary. And the fact that Magistrates saw fit to allow them this extra time doesn't make it right.

 

And the Ferrie family is just one example of this kind of heavy handed, inconsiderate policing.

[kyska]

My take on this is simple.

The police have a duty to investigate all actual and suspected crimes, I have never said otherwise.

But what I am saying is that the should make a distinction between scum who commit crimes as part of their normal life and respectable people who are forced to defend themselves and/or their family when the scum attack them. They should treat them as victims, not as an opportunity to get a conviction.

 

Of course everyone needs to be questioned, and of course if there is more than one person involved or if there are witnesses, they must be separated and interviewed separately.

 

But IMO there is absolutely no need to treat victims of crime as criminals. The Ferrie's were arrested and held in the cells for 3 whole days, even though the police knew, for nearly all of that time, that the two men he had shot were known criminals.

 

Why did they need to detain them for 3 days?

 

The short answer was that they didn't, they only needed to detain them long enough to take a statement from each of them, and to carry out a search of the crime scene. It suited the police to mistreat them in this way, but it wasn't necessary. And the fact that Magistrates saw fit to allow them this extra time doesn't make it right.

 

And the Ferrie family is just one example of this kind of heavy handed, inconsiderate policing.

 

I suppose we're singing of the same hymn sheet to a degree, and although not playing devils advocate, I still think you have a flawed plan.

 

I have complete faith in our Policing system (albeit, somethings go wrong, but as general we're blessed with a professional, audited, competent Police force and legal system) and if you knew the systems behind detention you'd see its not 'heavy handed policing, the Police can't make this up as they go along, they got detained, remembering this was a case of attempted murder or at least wounding with intent, both of which can carry a life sentence.

 

I'm not sure how they were mistreated as an investigation for the potential offences has to be carried out in accordance with a myriad of legislative constraints, its wasn't PC 111 who thought they'd 'bang' them up for three days.

 

Its our system, robust and non biased, thats the crux of our legal system.

 

How long do you think a scene of crimes investigation takes for attempted murder?

 

Would you, as a magistrate after 72 hours, without the full evidence of said investigation give someone, you don't know, who shot two people, bail?

 

You need to be a little more empathic, and aware of the hoops and jumps.

 

'Heavy handed' policing is a little unfair, the police adhere to strict Home Office guidance, you seem to be anti police, without addressing the true manner of the legal implications.

 

The law is right, correct, people who break in to occupied houses should expect a deterrence, we can't as you have quoted in a 'civilised society' expect immunity for the middle class from wounding somebody.

[GHE]

Actually it was suspected GBH, not suspected attempted murder.

 

I understand your point entirely, but look at the facts.

1. They phoned the police immediately and told them what had happened
    
   
2. The 2 injured burglars were in hospital and under arrest within minutes, they both had long records, in fact one of them was out on licence.
    
   
3. There was clear evidence of a forced entry
    
   
4. The self defence had taken place immediately outside their bedroom, there was no question of Mr Ferrie hunting them with a gun.
   

As I say, all the evidence was there, the police didn't exactly need to go looking for it. Realistically, is there any real reason why

they couldn't release them on police bail after interviewing them separately?

1. Wasn't there clear evidence in this case that they were victims, not criminals?
    
   
2. Did they really need to exercise all of their powers in this case?
    
   
3. Was it right to detain them in police cells for 3 days?
    
   
4. Hadn't they suffered enough at the hands of the burglars without the police adding to their problems unnecessarily?
   

It has nothing to do with 'class', it has everything to do with the attitude of some police officers to members of the public who dare to defend themselves from attack, and especially when they dare to use a gun. I'm willing to bet that they would have been treated much better if they had used a cricket bat instead...

 

Edit: BTW, I'm not anti police, the opposite in fact.

The irony here is that the Met police once gave me an award for bravery that I didn't deserve, for using pretty extreme force against someone who was attacking of of their own with a knife. No doubt if it had been a member of the public, not a police officer, they would have arrested me...

Edited October 14, 2012 by GHE