Pulling feathers

[Whizzo]

My cocker is as the addage goes, better than no dog. He was a house dog until 2 yrs ago when I began shooting again. He's now 6. He'll flush pheasants and find fallen birds.

I've just started pigeon shooting, when I hit a bird dog will charge over and find it but will immediately begin to chew at the feathers of winged birds.

I want to encourage him to get the birds and hold onto them, but don't want to appear to scold him for the wrong thing.

I would appreciate any suggestions on how to encourage him to puck the bird but not eat it!!

[lurcherboy]

Whizzo,

 

Suggest you check out NTTF or Mad Springer.

 

 

LB

[MadSpringer]

Hi Whizzo,

 

Could you give a little more info,

 

Does he actually tear the flesh of the bird and attempt to eat it?

 

Is he mouthing it in an attempt to get a better hold and is not keen on getting a mouth full of feathers?

 

Does he pick other game OK without damage?

 

Did you do any training with him using pigeons mixed in with dummies prior to taking him out pigeon shooting with you?

 

You mention the dog charges over when you hit a bird! Has the dog been sent or is he running in?

 

 

Cheers!

[Whizzo]

Hi Mad Springer,

 

He's not the best trained gun dog and goes running in. I have resorted to keeping him on the lead until I want him to go.

He just pull the feathers not the flesh and it is only on winged/injured birds he does this, but I don't think its because he can't get a grip on it.

He has done this before on game.

 

I haven't much exp. at dog training, but as I said in original post, he was a house dog/pet 'til he was 4yrs.

 

When training him with a dummy he is ok but I wrapped a pheasant wing on it and he would try to eat the feathers off that.

[MadSpringer]

Hi Whizzo

 

I have sent you a PM with some basics to get you started!

 

I will place a full post here when I'm back from a few days away

 

 

 

Cheers

[MadSpringer]

Hi Whizzo,

 

Firstly let me apologise for my slow replies, not been in work for a couple of weeks and therefore not spending too much time in front of a PC working hard browsing the PW forums!

 

Good to hear your dog is not damaging the winged birds and is only pulling on the feathers in his excitement!

 

I would address this problem by getting him used to holding feathers. Start with just a pheasant or pigeon wing, sit the dog in front of you and place the wing in his mouth and tell him to HOLD. Give him lots of praise whilst he is holding the wing, you may need to place one hand under his jaw to stop him dropping it, stroke the top of his head with your other hand and praise him. Only get him to hold it for 5 -10 seconds to start with, give him the release command (DEAD) and as soon as you have the wing in your hand give him lots of praise! Make sure you don’t pull the wing from him, this will cause him to grip it, you want him to give it up freely because it is rewarding for him to do so because he receives praise! Try to do two 5min sessions with him and slowly increase the time he holds the wing for. Your aim is to be able to place the wing in his mouth and tell him to HOLD, step back wait for 30 secs, step forward and reach down then ask him to release it! Remember to always give lots of praise!

 

When your dog is happy to hold the wing for a length of time, progress on to a dummy with a pair of wings fastened to it using rubber bands. Repeat the process above with the dog holding the feathered dummy.

 

The next exercise is to throw the feathered dummy out 10 – 12 feet to start with, send the dog to retrieve it and give lots of praise when he returns. Don’t worry too much about how he presents it to you at this stage you can work on that later. Your aim is to encourage the dog to return quickly with the retrieve and give him plenty of praise as his reward! If you find that he is not coming straight back to you put him on a check cord or flexi lead. If after picking the dummy he doesn’t respond to you calling him back just give him a slight tug on the lead to encourage him in the right direction (don’t drag him or get in to a tug of war situation). As soon as he turns towards you encourage him to keep coming! When he is happy to return with the feathered dummy from short distances, slowly increase the distance out to say 25 yards. On these longer retrieves encourage him to return quickly by running backwards and calling him to you. Again don’t worry about his presentation of the dummy, he may jump up in his excitement as you are running backwards but don’t scold him just give plenty of praise. You’re making it fun and rewarding for the dog to return with the retrieve, more fun and rewarding than having a chew of the feathers! When the dog is reliably returning with the feathered dummy mix in some plain dummies, give him plenty of encouragement and praise on all retrieves but go slightly OTT when he picks the feathered dummy!

 

The next step is to add a pigeon in to the retrieves. Place a couple of rubber bands around the pigeon to hold the wings in, this makes for a nice neat object to retrieve and is similar to the feathered dummy. Throw the dog a couple of feathered dummies to fire him up then throw the pigeon out and send him for it. If he hesitates to pick it give him lots of encouragement, again when he returns give lots of praise. Once he confidently picks and retrieves the pigeon try him on a pigeon without any rubber bands around it!

 

I would suggest you spend at least 2-3 weeks on each exercise, depends on the dog but make sure each exercise is 100% before moving on. Don’t overdo the retrieves, 6- 10 at each session, you don’t want him to become bored with it. Remember to make things fun!

 

You can still take him pigeon shooting with you but don’t send him to retrieve any birds. Use this time to work on his steadiness in the hide! There is a great obedience training post by NTTF pinned at the top of the Dogs and Dog Training section. It would be worthwhile running through this program too as it will help with control and steadiness!

 

A good steadiness exercise is as follows!

 

Sit the dog in front of you and step back 6-8 feet and slightly to the left. Throw a dummy out to the left and slightly behind you, you need to be in a position to stop the dog if he runs for the dummy, you can also do this exercise on a flexi lead or check chord you must stop the dog before he gets the dummy! As you throw the dummy reinforce the SIT, STAY or STOP Whistle command (not sure how you have trained him, I use the STOP Whistle on this exercise) If the dog moves from the spot, stop him and place him back in the exact spot and issue your command again. Walk out and pick the dummy and repeat the exercise. If the dog stays put walk out pick the dummy and walk back to the dog and praise him. Try throwing the dummy out at different angles left and right but make sure you are always able to stop the dog; you must pick the dummy each time. Always return to the dog and praise him for staying put! As the dog becomes steadier you can use multiple dummies and progress to throwing them over him also. After doing this exercise I walk the dog to the other end of the training area and give it a couple of retrieves as a reward too! I regularly do this exercise with my dogs (once a week) as it helps to reinforce steadiness.

 

 

Anyway back to the original problem!

 

When he is confidently picking and retrieving a pigeon in the training sessions take him shooting with you but don’t send him out for a retrieve. At the end of your session take a shot bird, pull the wings around the breast and place rubber bands around it, this will help to retain loose feathers. Throw it out and send the dog to retrieve it, give lots of encouragement and plenty of praise when he returns with it. Do this over the next 3-4 outings, if all has gone well at the end of the next session throw a shot bird out without the rubber bands around it. Again lots of encouragement to pick it and plenty of praise for retrieving! Repeat this over the next 3-4 outings. On future outings only send your dog for birds you can’t retrieve yourself, if you send him for every bird he will become unsteady and think every shot bird is his to retrieve! Only send him for pricked birds when you are fully confident in him and he is retrieving shot birds quickly and reliably, until then you will have to spend another cartridge.

 

Remember to keep things fun for the dog and always give lots of praise and encouragement. If your dog runs in on a shot bird DON’T scold him if he has picked the bird, just calmly take it from him when he returns. Scolding a dog for a retrieve could put it off at worst but can cause the dog to be tense and nervous. This tension can manifest itself in a firm grip on retrieves causing some damage.

 

A friend of mine has a Springer bitch that had a similar problem with pulling tufts of fur from rabbits. He had only used her for pigeon shooting but had the opportunity to shoot a few rabbits. He sent her out for the first shot rabbit; she picked it but immediately dropped it and started pulling fur off it! When he mentioned this to me I asked if he had used a fur covered dummy in her training, “No” was his reply “I only used wings on the dummies as I was only going to use her for pigeons” I suggested that the reason she had pulled at the fur was because she was not used to the feeling of fur in her mouth and had either become unsure or excited by this new sensation. He ran through the same exercises as above using fur over a 10-12 week period, she is now keen to retrieve rabbits with no problems!

 

Hope this helps you!

 

If there is anything you are not sure about or I have not explained clearly just ask!

 

Let us know how things are going!

 

 

Cheers