Cocker correction

[liamdenn]

Hi Guys

Been viewing the forum for a few months but this is the first post! I have a 9 month old cocker dog who is very sensitive( he will sulk and whimper all day if anyone says boo to him). He has just started training and is great 90% of the time. However the problem I have is that he does not take correction very well. If he wants to do something he is great but if he dosnt he will refuse and if pushed it is like a switch goes off in his head and he becomes manic. He will run up and down in lines of about 20 yards and will be totally uncontrolable. This happens rarely and usually the training goes to plan but if he misbehaves I dont want to let him get away with it. any ideas how best to deal with him?

And on a second note, he ran off on me this morning for the first time. He was in a field next door last night and a rabbit bolted. The dog took off after him of course and that was fine. He came back to me straight away. However this morning he made straight for the field and would not come back when called. He did come back after 5 mins of me calling him and was in full view all the time. How hard should I be on this behaviour considering his age and how sensitive he is . I go to a professional trainer once a week with the dog and he seems to think he is mature enough to go in to training at this age.

Should I have punished the dog severly this morning for him not coming back to the whistle?

Thanks in advance

[new to the flock]

If you had punished him when he came back after 5minutes then you would just be punishing him for coming back. If you had went and caught him in the field and slipped a lead on him then you could of done 3 or 4 controlled recalls to adress the problem.

 

By the sound of it you have a submissive or a dominant dog. If he is submissive he will sulk and crawl on his belly, roll onto his back and attatch himself to you when in trouble....if dominant, he will take the punishment, not look at you, sit with his back to you and ears switched off, ignor you etc. Depending which he is , will dictate the type of corrections you should be using.

 

NTTF

[liamdenn]

Thanks for that NTTF. He is a funny little chap. He will sometimes roll on his back but more often than not he will give you dirty looks and sulk as if the whole world is against him. BTW he gets very little punishment other than vocal.

There was a big bloody hedge between me and him this morning so I couldnt get to him. and instead kept using the recall whistle. he knew well on the way back that he shouldnt have done it and had a big guilty head on him

[new to the flock]

From what you are saying this dog runs on the dominant side. After your next correction while he is sulking slip his lead on and put him through some heeling, sits, and recalls, then get him back to the lesson he had a problem with.

 

Keep a very close eye on how he reacts and let me know incase it needs to be changed, but I think that this will refocus him and get his mind back to the task at hand. Be sure to do this on lead as it will give you total control during the exercises.

 

NTTF

[liamdenn]

Thanks a mill for that. i will try it and keep you posted

[TheDaveyBoy]

Just going through the forum and saw your note:

Had a cocker and did just as yours appears to behave. Its std to say in the bred. The advise youve been given is very sound and I like it.

Id like to go a little further and say of the animal is young then say up to 1 - 2 yrs keep them on a lead and show them how to behave. walk to heel, lundging, pulling etc. My mistake was to send mine off when he was immature and get using him right away.

He learnt from me that he coul be dominant and I reacted badly and punished.. However check out a book ( worth the money ) by Martin Deeley .. just the ticket for cockers.

If your ******* off for a period and comes back .. do the opposite to what you want to do .. eg punish .. as in reality hes coming back cos he likes and wants to be with you .. so reinforce that returning is a good thing and some fuss is reward enough, but not too much else you'll get nothing done.

If he works to heel ok and keep him close on a noise not the whistle and not his name .. I used 'h.upph' in different tones to ephasise my objection. Youll keep his attention with this. if he sees rabbits and goes off then whistle as a command and chase like hell. He will turn, catch him, use the lead for a short bit then back to wlking to heel off lead... what you dont want is him to associat eth lead with no fun .. its the opposite actually as its this that means a walk and shooting and rabbits and oh boy !

 

To desensatize to rabbits we put mine a pheasent pen with some and worked him on the whistle and lead controlling always.

Use a weighted dummy witha skin on it too .. makes for eager and concentrated fun ..

If yours really does something like bite or go off on one in a pheasent pen at the start of the season then to punish use two hands either side of head, scruff the neck and head, lift off ground, give a good shake, look for paws to go down ( submissive ) - dont say their name, use NO or command word for STOP ... and put on ground, and slip on lead.. got to catch em at it though so they associate.

 

Seen dogs beaten with sticks go and do the same again and again and get worse..

 

Training should be fun for you both so keep it short no more that 30 minutes a couple of times in a good walk. Use a small enclosed field - not 250 acres so you can have his attention. dont do it with other dogs.

 

My advise in short is if you have children, treat your dog the same .. no beating, no shouting, they look for leadership, and calm and tonnes of fun that only you can give them if they are working by the rules... it a big game for them.. Got to think dog !

 

If you are local to wiltshire I can lend you this book, and can help if asked..

 

Good luck sounds like you are going to have fun

 

Chris

[liamdenn]

Thanks for the tips. He has done it again in this field next to the house a few times in the last week ( the latest time this morning when he chased calves around for a few minutes before I got to him) so it has to stop. The funny thing is I can bring him to areas full of game and he will stay close and quarter grand. Never has run away from me even if a rabbit bolts. It is only in this field next to the house. So I think the answer in the short term is to keep him on a lead around the house and keep training him away as I am doing. He is still young so maybe keeping temptation away from him is the best policy untill he can be trusted.

[new to the flock]

Some very good advise and a very generous offer.

 

I would suggest that you work your dog in the problem field aswell, but only on lead for the next while . There is something triggering this behaviour in this particular field and it needs to be addressed.

 

As a puppy did you give him free rein in the field beside the house?

 

NTTF

[liamdenn]

Hi

Thanks very much for the offer unfortunatly I am in the sth east of ireland so would be a bit of a trek!

Unfortunatly there are calves in the "problem" field so I cant really go there at the moment.

He was never in this field untill this happened 2 weeks ago. He never had to as there is 100 acres around the house which is under rape so loads of game for him to sniff around. However for the last month the rape is too high and we cant walk him in it hence him going into the other field. The rape is due to be cut on the 22 of July so we will have access again to the hundred acres.

I am hoping if we leave him on the lead around the house and bring him away in the car for daily training that when the rape is cut he will be have loads of room there.

As for the trigger, I reckon its simple enough. He was sniffing around the hedge one evening and a rabbit bolted from under his nose. He took off after it and has had an interest in going in there since. He also now knows there are calves in there which he can chase too. I cant really blame the dog for doing this as we havnt trained him to be steady yet and it would be worse if he saw a rabbit bolt and not have any interest in it!

Again bear in mind when I have him training there is never a problem with him not staying within 40 yards.

What you guys reckon to my solution

Thank again

Liam

[new to the flock]

Personnally I would get him stock brock before he gets himself shot, and I would also get a call off command in place such as no bird, or no game. This command lets him no that he is not to chase the rabbit or flushed bird and is simply taught by working him on a long line. When he puts a rabbit up you give him a pop on the lead and the command. Keep repeating until he stands there and just watches them go without chasing.

 

NTTF

[liamdenn]

Hi

Whats Stock brock? He has just started working on the long line when game is being flushed and in fairness he sits there and watches them run off. Since he was very young any time he flushed a pheasant he just sat down and watched them fly away.

[new to the flock]

Sorry was typing that around 5:30 am before I had a coffee all the way down. I meant to say stock broke. Get him around to a couple of farms introduce him to what the animals are and if he trys to grab or chase give a solid pop on the lead and a firm no. He is broke when you can walk him in and around and through all the animals without him looking at or showing any interest in them. Then be sure that you can do the same in the field. Nothing worse than having your dog leave hunting to chase sheep or cows or horses not only does he become a liability to any accidents but some farmers will lawfully shoot him on the spot.

 

If he naturally is sitting on flushed game, you are ahead in the training. Have him on line and when something flushes give a command.....no bird......and praise. If he goes to chase give a pop and command, have him sit and give praise. The reason for the command is so that if he does decide to give chase you can stop him and redirect him.

 

I think you will find that now that he has chased a couple of times....rabbit and calves.....that he will be inclined to do it more often as it is alot more fun than just watching them go. If you find you are having problems let me know and I will try to help.

 

NTTF

[liamdenn]

sounds like the job. Going away in a few weeks to a place where I can have access to animals ( my cousins, so unlikely he will shoot the dog) and I can work with him again and again on it.