^mimic^

Dear sir, If they failed to notify the DVLA about it, they are not innocent law abiding motorists. I was under the impression that failing to notify the DVLA is not a criminal offence. It has something to do with customs and excise I think. They have the power to confiscate the vehicle untill you pay the release fee. A bit like wheel clamps. I suppose you agree with them aswell? Huh? DVLA http://direct.gov.uk/Motoring/OwningAVehic...2058&chk=LT7VlS

Dear sir, If they failed to notify the DVLA about it, they are not innocent law abiding motorists.

Not as many. And for the record the DVLA crushed alot of Twits cars this year thanks to reveniew fee's allowing them to trace the cars better.

You have a fair point about Mp's, shall we say siphoning the proceeds. I would have to say it's more like Legal motorists, paying a fee to have Un-insured , un-licensed or drunk / reckless drivers, who have Crashed into their car and injured someone or worse killed someone dealt with swiftly by the law. or removed from the road in the first place.

Ok well I did not suggest they be placed under F.A.C I suggested that a license like that which responsible Fishers, Ham Radio users and TV owners pay to help maintain the integrity of their hobby. Meaning the Fee is simply to help pay for the extra policing. You think this would not help reduce the crime? then simply explain why?? Lets not get un civilised here, we are supposed to be working together to find a practical answer. Now, In the case of HAM radio, users pay a small license fee of which the proceeds are used to fund the D.T.I these intern police the Airways and help prevent certain shall we say Twits from spoiling the hobby for the rest. And for those of you that keep clinging to the Car's are more dangerous, Cars Require insurance, A driver's license , Road tax and MOT certificate, You also have Fuel tax, Not only that if you abuse a car you will go to prison. Or be fined heavily. They are also an essential part of society Airguns are not. So if you feel airguns and cars are in the same league, I guess your suggesting the same restrictions should apply....?

Ok so the defense for airgunners is that most of them do not care or wish to do anything about the problem and are against, any attempt to bring the problem under control.

Please explain why you have a problem with licensing your air gun if you use it responsibly? ,To pay a small license for your airgun. to help provide the necisary funds allowing increased penaltys to be implemented.

Thankyou for responding. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- A petition could be organized by recognized shooting organizations, Forums and sensible shops. With the suggestion from Responsible airgun owners that support a license that this fund could help combat the problem, This could in turn be presented to the MP's currently considering out right bans. No you can't stop the determined and no one is asking you to, But you can deter a petty thug or reckless user from taking a pot shot at someone. By helping create stronger deterrents and the resources to help them be implemented correctly.

If this thread is hard for people to read or upsetting then I apologize, If you feel it is unwelcome here despite it not breaching the rules, then please feel free to remove it, I respect the wishes of the group. But I Put it to you that all I am doing, Is laying all of the cards out on the table, for everyone in the sport to see, I'm putting all sides of the argument together as best as I can in an unbiased manor. Now we have two choices. 1: Brush them under the carpet and refuse to look at the facts or confront the problem. (look the other way) 2: Face upto the facts no matter how unpleasant they are and work together to attempt to do something about this disgrace. (turn and face the problem) "contradictious" or perhaps there is another explanation.

Cranfield "Back to the drawing board." Let's assume a License was introduced, One similar to a TV, Fishing or HAM radio license, set at a price all Responsible users would not object to pay. The proceeds of which be used to pay for the extra policing, jail space and administration required for the people committing the offences. Before you say it no I don't think this fare to responsible air gun users. However it would certainly offer a strong defense for them.

I almost don't want to comment on this thread any more, but I can't let the last flurry go by without saying something. So, we don't licence air weapons (which means we don't know who owns them, or where they are located) , but we impose prison sentences for missuse, like 5 years custody. However, because the prisons are full, this would never be imposed, but the "yobs" don't know that and will therefore not misuse air weapons. There is also the suggestion of a "Substantial" fine, "10 grand" no less. A Magistrate friend of mine tells me that most of the fines actually fully paid from the offenders own pocket, are those levied on "normal law abiding people", for non criminal offences, such as speeding. Fines on scum for public disorder, shop lifting and low level criminal offences are rarely paid in full and what is, normally comes from some State Benefit. Back to the drawing board. Good old Cranfield, Correct as always I can't offer a defense to the above, But there has to be a realistic way to tackle the problem with airguns, And it's my opinion Responsible owners, Shooting associations and local authority's all have to work together on this to find the answer.

The Defense for cars. Cars are an essential item the whole country depends on them. The entire economy would collapse without them. (VS) The Defense for airguns. That 'some' reasonable shooters would like to keep their hobby. And might be a little upset to loose them. (VS) The Defense for airgun ban. Babys and children being shot. Adults being shot. Fire and ambulance staff being shot. Peoples pets being shot. People buying air guns just for the perpose of shooting people with. On that note il leave you to think about what iv said, would stiffer penaltys for airgun abusers really be such a harsh price to pay to keep your hobby?

Not exactly, The 5 year sentence could never be imposed because there is not enough room in the jails. However the yobs don't know that , a Substantial fine (10 grand) might be implemented. Secondly what do you suppose will happen to airguns if Yobs continue to shoot people & pets? ,Sooner or later there will be an outright ban. Meaning possession of an airgun becomes a section 5 offence as a prohibited weapon. You might want to take a look at the news http://news.google.co.uk/news?hl=en&tab=wn...F-8&q=air+rifle and take a look at the support for an outright ban http://www.theherald.co.uk/news/68631.html , Rspca http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/5307582.stm then perhaps re evaluate your stance.

Personally I don't think a licence is the answer I believe Tougher sentences for people who abuse air guns is probably the best solution. Misuse of an air gun = 5 years in prison & future ban of owning such items for that person. To Make it Clear to people that shooting at a person with an air gun will carry the same penalty as a LR regardless of the damage caused. The fact is an air gun can kill somebody and therefor shooting at a person with one risks their life, this should constitute attempted murder.

I did not sell the rifle, and im certainly not the one who is going to wrecklessly abuse it. If you want someone to blame, Then id suggest you look to your local M.P for allowing this type of thing to be un regulated. If you kick up a stink in a F.A.C shop your going to get yourself into trouble, not them. The problem is exactly the same in shops that are selling Knifes and other weapons, all you will be doing is ******* into the preverbial wind. The laws need to be changed, Regulations need to come into play, that is not going to happen unless responsible shooters also take up a stance willing to help the authoritys, to impose such restrictions. That is the reason for this thread. So that you can all see the problem for yourself's.

Its not that simple, 2 of us And 3 of them if you count the shop dealer, So its Hear say. And until an actual offence has been committed no crime has been committed. The sale was not in itself illegal. as pointed out what those adults decide to do with it after the sale is their responcibility not the shop keepers. I have a pair of week worn sock's, Beleive me they are extremely dangerous.

The women did all the talking & handling, the man did the paying and showed very little interest in the gun. You tell me, that's why I posted about it.

They were very well spoken and dressed, looked like a man and his wife, she spoke to me breafly but i just blanked her. if thats the case then it may well like you say have been a sting in which case the look on my face will be on video as my friend and i both looked to each other in dis belief lol

I wish I was!, as I say I was very shocked. another shooter was with me so im sure they could verify what was said. Il also point out this was a F.A.C shop aswell! As for yobs shooting at pets, I tell you what if any of those ***** takes a shot at one of my animals, I will ram that rifle so far up their **** theyl have to go to hospital to get it removed.

Who would i report it to?

I went to gun shop yesterday to look at some bits, im not going to give the name of this shop or disclose its location but i wanted to discuse the Events that took place while i was there Now i was in there looking at rifle's quitely minding my own business when a women walked into the shop, Rather smartly dressed midle aged id guess. The shop keeper ask's her can i help you madam, She says, yes I want to buy an Air Rifle He asks her what do you want to use it for madam. She replys to Shoot intruders with. The Keepers say, so what do you really want to use it for rabbits ? pigeons ? She states again To shoot intruders with. - Ok so by this time im thinking but then it gets worse - the Keeper says Certainly madam any of these 3 rifles will do very well they are all full legal power and begins to show her 3 rifles. She asks how many shots does it fire can it do more than one? the keeper proceeds to Discharge the rifle 2 or 3 times and talk her through loading it. The look on my face is now one of shear dis beleive and im about turned hard engrossed in the other section trying not to look at this person. He perswades her to take the most powerfull one they have on shelf 11.8 ftbls. I watch in horrow as she works on getting to grips with loading the gun an holding it, needless to say it ends with a sale. Now i know they need to make a living and the sale pays their wages, But to sell the rifle under these circumstances is just , well i cant even put it into words

Funny I used to think of badgers like that, right up till the day I Accidentally walked into their set while out with my dog, The Bloody things surrounded us and tried having him while I was there, I had quickly to escort him back to the car out of dangers way. Those poxy things should have their protected status Revoked.

any chance of some photos of that cat skull?. I asume by this you don't mean some domestic mogy.

What is it with me and my stupid mouth, why do I do it? Ok sod it here's my opinion. Now a young lad was killed the other day after a pellet from a sub 12ft lb air rifle hit him in the eye with a standard pellet. (a tragic story) and one has to ask what the hell were, kids doing alone with the gun, why the hell was the gun being pointed at someone (loaded or not) why in gods name did they pull the trigger, Sadly for this young lad, it seems no one took the adequate precautions. http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2006390116,00.html Now the question could a small cal rimfire kill a large animal in the same way id say the answer was obvious. But The answers I was looking for are the 800 reasons why this would be a Really bad idea. Ie Its illegal. If it misses and wounds it your going to die. It's not humane to shoot a large animal with an insufficient caliber. You could loose your F.A.C It's a protected species And so on Etc etc

Then i stand corrected, but they are both 10 grains lighter than a subsonic. Im Un certain, just repeating what i was told.