rbrowning2

or go all out and go simulated clay game shooting or laser also then no need to worry about lead shot in game or plas wads. However one assumes if such is being suggested someone has thought through the how to and the cost? or is the idea just to keep us happy for now when the reality is a total lead shot ban.

Conor you have yet to answer the question regarding the measures clay grounds would need to comply with to continue using lead shot.

Insp Davies said: "We’ve had seven cases during this trial where we've either refused or revoked a licence; that is seven cases that potentially could have gone on to domestic abuse homicide They potentially could still go on to be domestic abuse homicide but by a knife rather than a firearm.

Well we will all fail, if you shoot pigeons or rabbits or foxes etc. question, would your partner ever hurt an animal? What happens in the partner answered yes to a single question like hurt a child? who’s word would they take then the partner or the applicant? very subjective questions. So Guilty again, rather than innocent before being proved guilty.

Trap shooting, english skeet, DTL, olympic skeet, etc are shot over very small areas of open ground, and whilst costly ground sheets and curtains can be installed to capture and hence recover the shot. However none of this is possible for english sporting or FITAS. But despite asking, Conor refuses to explain how this can be done for english sporting and FITAS shot over larger areas than trap shooting and frequently within woods or over rough ground. As I said appeasement as in reality the only logical answer is not to use lead shot.

Quote BASC’s position is that clay pigeon shooting with lead shot could continue where grounds have the correct risk measures in place, and they can ensure lead removal, as per the HSE guidance for target shooting with rifles. However, What exactly is the correct risk measures and how can any clay ground that shoots english sporting in woods ensure lead removal ???? You may not have any clay grounds to shoot at, depends on the cost of implementing the measures are worthwhile to continue with lead. Yes steel shot then becomes the only way forward, but for grounds that are currently fibre wads only who will want to pay £400 plus for cartridges to shoot clays?

This is tedious and I am drawing a line under it. You have made your choice and it's yours to make."…………………….. for now.

Conor reading between the lines of what you have written on many forums over the years is that what BASC policy really wants is the simplest way forward which is a total ban on all lead shot. Fiddling around trying to appease clay shooters and those with old guns which can only shoot the alternative very expensive non toxic shot is just an inconvenience to the bigger agenda of banning lead shot for live quarry shooting. Even the biodegradable wad mess is just to make steel shot viable to ensure a cheap cartridge for the majority, after all if you can afford £40, £50 for a game bird what’s £2 for a cartridge in the cost of a day.

The manufactures are using material certified to EN13432 but conveniently don’t tell you that just because the material is certified to EN13432 the product manufactured from it will likely not if too thick like that of a wad. It is material targeted at the packaging industry like used in plastic bags or food rappers. We are all in the dark when we buy cartridges with so called biodegradable wads as we know in reality nothing about them as only the paper/card type actually have microorganisms in nature that degrade them being made from cellulose.

Where do we shoot clay pigeons if not in open countryside? Think Trafalgar square may cause a few problems, what is your definition of open countryside?

My take on this is that to give commercial game shooting any long term future the game must enter the food chain otherwise killing for fun or sport is untenable. For the game to enter the food chain the customers, suppermarkets etc are looking for the game to be free of lead. When a certain cartridge company started to sell steel shot cartridges with water soluble wads BASC recognised this as oopportunity to achieve the goal of moving away from lead shot. As to do so with single use plastic wads was also untenable as it was just another form of pollution in the countryside at a time when single use plastic pollution was and still is a big issue in the environment and frequently in the news. Hence all was in place to introduce the voluntary five year transition for live quarry shooting using non toxic shot and biodegradable wads at an affordable price point. With the added potential bonus this may also limit the impact or scope of any European or U.K. government ban on lead in ammunition. However nobody could foresee Covid or Putins war and the impact they would have on component supplies. However the elephant in the room is that certain lead shot clay cartridges are also adequate for live quarry shooting.

😂😂😂😂😂 Very easy to say very difficult to do, birds do fly you know 😊 And who pays for the approval process ? HSE never work for free.

However the risk is the HSE will move the agenda to include all lead shot and then the grounds will have no choice. As understand it a lot of the Europe grounds are trap shooting which is far easier to manage lead risks then English sporting, the hint is in the word English.

Confusing? So just looking into home loading .410/12 bore for steel shot. looking on the sites I have found the following for .410 5kg #9 Steel shot £19.50 500 cork wads £13.50 ———— Not a good idea unless you do not value the gun 2.2kg powder £45 ——————— Really that’s a lot of powder for 500 .410 but at that price buy as much as you can afford. 300 primed 65mm cases £46.98 Then have you looked at how practical and effective the finished cartridge will be for pattern and terminal energy?

Conor I read this as basc trying to distance itself from being instrumental in a total lead shot ban by stating the voluntary transition was only ever about live quarry shooting when in reality to achieve that goal all lead shot needs to be banned. I know no English sporting clay ground that has measures in place to control lead shot to protect the flora and fauna or could practically implement it and probably unlikely to even be able to afford such measures once known. Hence steel shot for clay shooting will be the only viable option. Cartridge costs as suggested are really an insignificant cost to the overall cost of a days game shooting so seen as not an issue. Like it or not protecting the environment comes at a cost and if you cannot afford the non toxic alternatives then the hard reality will be bin your .410 and use a 12bore or look for a new sport.