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  1. Clay and Game have 3% antimony Shot 6 2.65mm ( so 5 3/4 approx ) Shot 5 2.85mm ( so 4 3/4 approx ) so I will load with those for the 1st test loads. True UK 6 is 2.6mm True UK 5 is 2.8mm So their offerings are 1/4 size over true shot size - based on the UK shot sizing chart for lead shot on their website. I have just been looking again at the the paper patterns and basically there is no pattern there in all the loads and with trying all the chokes 32/34g and 1/4 - 1/2 and 3/4 Teague chokes even at 50 yards. I estimate there will be close to an adequate consistent pattern / retained energy at 50 yards for the 2.65mm shot and < 55 yards for the 2.85mm shot. Only the testing will show. I will go on shot count in the 20" and the 30" circle when the time comes. Apologies if you find all this boring.
  2. Ah, Ok. When it comes to reloading I will get some recipe's off the experienced re-loaders to start with. Thanks for all the speedy replies - a bit more to think about now !
  3. Even if they can easily afford to cover the fine, hopefully it will begin to cast doubt in some politician's minds, as to actually how credible some of this bloke's claims are. That bit of news was good to see.
  4. There doesn't seem to be a lot of research findings published relating to this subject, which is why I posted this. As I am planning to load some test loads to trial it would be valuable information. Manufacturers must know that it does but I am still unsure due to the inconsistency in the range of fps cartridges Game cartridges they offer. For example: 20 gauge Gamebore Black Gold 32g fibre 5 - 1425 fps 20 gauge Hull High Pheasant Extreme 32g fibre 5 - 1360 fps Perhaps other have a knowledge of this ?
  5. Sorry - Should read Hull's No 6 I estimated Hull's as being 5 3/4 shot size as there's is 2.75mm and UK 6 is 2.6mm and UK 5 is 2.8mm.
  6. Sorry missed this post. The quarry was pheasants. The cartridges were Gamebore. I estimated Hull's as being 6&2/3 and UK 6 is 2.6mm and UK 5 is 2.8mm.
  7. Thanks for all that quality - info absolutely fantastic which I can now refer to. I think the proof of the pudding is in the eating, I'll try and source some 3 - 5% antimony shot and the next stage will be loading some test loads !
  8. As you have said maximum range before insufficient energy: No 6 50 yards No 5 60 yards With 5% antimony and 6 1/2 shot maybe 55 yards is drawing near - for those who can gauge the difference between 50 and 55 yards. Could easily move to 34 gram as Black Gold with 1360 instead of BG 1425 for the benefit of pattern quality. If I see a really even pattern with a specific cartridge then try it in the field, the difference is noticeable if you have a lot of experience as you will understand yourself. I am not 100% convinced on No. of exact hits as much as a dense even pattern. Interesting to know who decided that a bird needs 3 hits in a vital organ to kill it humanely. I accept that a bird will take 3 hits in other body parts and go on with smaller shot sizes. I agree 100%. I am not sure many people can, although I am always measuring those sort of distances with a rangefinder and have trees around the house I know the exact distance of a look at several times a week just to remind myself. -OCD quite possibly !
  9. Yes they are. They produced a quantity of these but they sat in their warehouse for too long so they decided to discontinue. They said today they will be updating their website. I don't have an issue with recoil with 32 0r 34 and will be looking around 1360fps when I load them. That is easy to determine with gel blocks if you have the time or inclination. Manufacturers are interested in the mass market and the average shooter isn't interested in what is being discussed at length on this thread. To produce loads superior to anything on the market is not going to take a lot of doing if you have a passion and the knowledge. As many have said up to 40 yards most cartridges will do the job well. Possibly due to the price and increased recoil. I use an Isis Xpad recoil pad so recoil does not come into it. That would have been a fantastic cartridge as they reduced the speed to 1360 improve pattern quality below the Black Golds 1425.
  10. Yes it is - but they have discontinued the 32g 6 in 20g as did not sell well. Onto plan B - Load my own so I'm after recipes now to give approx 1360 - 1425 fps in 32g fibre 20 guage
  11. When it is mentioned that a shotgun is a scatter gun there could be no truer a statement. Basically we have a disc of shot leaving the gun following the line of a shallow tapered ice cream cone shape, increasing in diameter the further the disc travels from the end of the barrels. As soon as it reaches circa. 60 yards even with 12 gauge using 40 gram 4s the pattern has failed to a degree that makes consistent humane shooting impossible. Whatever choke, gun or usable cartridge combination anyone cares to develop nothing can alter the cone line the shot takes. I am fairly certain that I will find a combination that will allow the 20 gauge to be consistent on 50 yard birds, but reaching for the 55 yard birds may not be acceptably humane even though a percentage may be stone dead, as the consistency will have dropped considerably.
  12. The 2 loads used today are continental - I have called them what they are called 5 and 4 1/2. Of course they are 41/3 and 4. The next on test will be 6 3/4 so they is a marked difference there, with approx. 75 more pellets in the pattern. I just need to address the pattern failing and I am fairly confident I can achieve that in due course. I am not interested in the fluke kills that is without fail the norm. on higher bird shoots where the energy radically exceeds the capability of the pattern. Experience shooters can clearly see when a bird is hit a non lethal strike by its behavior and it's not great for shooting. Looking forward to the next run of testing.
  13. It's sometimes the case that you cant see the woods for the trees. So many have opinions based on different experiences but as is usually the case - the science comes to the forefront. All said and done, for consistent clean humane kills you need to be close to what your equipment is capable of, which for a 20 guage looks to be closer to 50 than 60 yards and a 12 below 60. I shall gather some more data from the patterns I now have - they may photograph well. Some I need to add the circles as I wanted to get the shots done before the wind dropped. It is however an enjoyable experience.
  14. At least you didn't say I told you so 🙂 I'm thinking High Pheasant Extreme 32 gram - which is approx. 6 3/4 shot size. Mmm - not done that test or any counting yet - I think you had a good post about the discs on the other thread. There were just way way too many large gaps in those patterns. I will do some counting on the slightly better results.
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