.222 to be no more

[Big Dog]

Guys. For the past months I have been getting land etc so I can apply for a .222 when my firearm cert' is up in December.

 

Note: for field work, vermin hunting, .222 is about a good as you will get in Northern Ireland. The 223 is basically unless your shooting fields are very big. That is not the norm in NI :yp:

 

The more I look for .222 the less I find. I would favour a Tikka 3 bull barrel varmint. The USA guys say they don't make them.

Are there European Tikka manufacture or is that it??:devil:??:devil:??

 

If the .222 is dying out, and the ammo then will too, this would leave us Northern Irish lads sticking with Hornets, which I think are great but I would prefer a .222

 

Can anyone put facts on the table here so I know if I am on the right track to pursue the .222 or am I up the wrong tree??:devil:??:lol:???

[Gemini]

http://www.tikka.fi/pdf/specs/Varmint.pdf

 

 

G.M.

[dunganick]

deff not

 

dont take this as an insult, but you probably dont move in the right circles to encounter this calibre as much as the more common 223.

 

i normally dont either, but on the odd occasion do, let me explain.

 

generally, (bench rest exempt) the 222 is used more for a traditional vermin round, and more as a foxer than a long range gun, this is due to the twist rate, meaning it dosent staibalise heavy bullets properly. however the 223 generally (not always) comes in a faster twist rate 1-9 which staibalises the bullets correctly in the 60+ grain area, this lends its self to longer range accuracy.

 

now recently it seems that more people fancy them selves as a long range sniper (dont we all :yp: ) and are buying into the 223 in a big way (this mixed with cheaper ammo components), these people like tactical rifles, with muzle breaks and laminate stocks or synthetic stocks (im not saying i dont like these).

 

however there is a hidden type of person whom i come across very occasionaly (and have the privilage to have shot with a few) whom use the 222 as their only foxing round, they dont blow up rabbits, they use the 222 as a work horse about 150 days a year to shoot about the same number of foxes. and as best as i can tell, this is down to it being a social statement (b0llock$ your thinking) well, if you went out and stopped all the shooters in the uk this evening lamping, i wouldnt mind betting that if they are over 40 they will use the 222 or 22 hornet and a 243, however if they are 30ish they will be using the 223 and 243. plain and simple becuase the 222 was used years ago far more than the 223, and as a very succesful benchrest round, these people were around in the peak of their shooting then, and swear by it. however the younger people like the tactical guns, they like big scopes and silencers, where as the older generations swear by fixed power 6x42, 7x50 or 8x56. they have shoot thousands of foxes this way, so why change the recepie.

 

you might well not agree with what i have just written, but i am privalidged enough to know quite a few of the older generations whom swear by the hornet and 222, and as best as i can tell they use them becuase the 222 brings them memories of hundreds of dead foxes, so why would you swap cartridges when you kill everything you shoot at.

 

graunted these people are more and more selling up their collections to give up shooting, or they are not the kind of guy shooting 50 rounds off a bench down your local range. maybe this is why it seems as though the 222 is dieing.

 

i know that i intend to put another nail in its coffin by going with the 223 becuase of the avalibility of rifles in that callibre.

 

great round, wont ever die, will just become less spoken about. its there it does its job, who cares, its a work horse

 

**** hope some of this made sense, im not feeling my best right now got this latest bug

Edited September 8, 2005 by dunganick

[Frank]

Big Dog, I have seen .223s for sale in shooting magazines in the north, they must get licenced the odd time. I went threw hell and back to get mine, but i kept persisting and never gave up.

2 years ago here in southern Ireland, it was nearly imposible to get a .223. Now, they are getting licenced almost like any other .22 centerfire.

Is their anyway you can have a chat with your firearms officer on getting a .223 licenced?

How much land do you need? As the .222 and .223 are very similar in balistics.( i think iv splet that right :*) ). their is only a couple of hundred fps between the two.

[Sergeant]

I must say that I would go for the .223 over any of the other sub deer legal rounds, simply because it is popular, ammo is cheap and readily available and it does its job very well.

[Big Dog]

In the North .222 are very popular as is the Hornet. If you want to work on targets at a range then you get about anything (223, 22-250, 308 etc). Yes you can get 223s for field work in the North but you need to have the land to use it. Very view are liecenced for field work. What I mean is fields in excess of 300 yards long. Most foxes shoot 150-200 yrs range I'm told. N. Ireland is not like England. You guys have very big fields, we don't, at least not repeatedly. Horse people have often large fields but I don't shoot any horse land, don't know many who do. Lots of 3-6 acre fields, some up to 10-13 and less above. Farms are about 30 -60 acres. There are bigger but I am giving the norm.

 

All the dealers I've talked to say that unless you can justify it you wont get it. They all say justifying it is hard. The military round is another big problem here in the North, I'm sure I don't need to explain why.

 

I talked to my dealer and a guy from a range on Saturday morning and they said that the .222 was the most popular fox round. They said there was no problem of it going away.

 

I'm not sure how they can say that, as they don't make then, but my dealer sells a lot of .222s.

 

To answer the question on talking to the local gun Police. From what I have been told, this new licencing system has taking that type of decision away from local level. We don't even need to go near them, we deal with head quarters in Belfast. If they have queirys they contact the local branch and instruct them what to do. Thats what I have been told by one dealer.

 

Finally I looked at a Ruger heavy barrel on Saturday, rifle only, boy was it heavy. So now I don't know what to do. I want some field shooting and some range???

 

If I went for a hunting style are the those that are slightly heavier barrelled but not full bull?? You know how some are Ultra light light the Styer?

 

Whats your thought?

[Frank]

Hi Big Dog,

Id say the .222 should be fine for years to come yet, if you cant get the .223 licenced .

Their isint a much of a difference between them anyway, just a couple of 100 fps.

Im not too sure what you could go for in the medium weaight barrell.

An Anschutz .222 is one great rifle from what i here, but can be expensive.

It is well worth it though, a medium weaight barrell, deadly accurate and would last you several life times. :blink:

It serves as multipurpose rifle too, you can use it for range or hunting.

Good luck with what ever you end up getting.

[dunganick]

i really wouldnt worry about the barrel, unless you intend to shoot tactical competitions which require high accuracy and alot of rounds down range in a short ammount of time, you will never see the stringing that a lighter barrel can suffer from.

 

my father has a sako 75 hunter (so a light barrel) in 222, and it takes a good 15 shots for it to string.

 

he also has a sako 75 hunter in 6.5 but this being the smalest round in this action gives it a comparitively large barrel for the hole down the middle (almost like the semi hevay barrel you mention) this takes between 7 and 10 shots to really notice the stringing.

 

in 223 stringing will nto be an issue for a good number of rounds.

 

if you shoot sporting competitions, the ammount the stringing will affect the gun is not worth note.

 

if you shoot bench rest, you should be taking pleanty of times between shots anyway.

 

if you shoot alot of foxes, unless you have over 10 in a period of 5mins then you wont notice the stringing.

 

it is a myth that a light barrel is less accurate than a heavy barrel, it is however true that a heavy barrel is less affected by pressure on it, and that it will be easier to develop a handload which shoot well for it (or find a factory round, as you would have to do over in ireland) this is not an issue its just a case of having to hunt around.

 

my advice, get a tikka with a light barrel or a sako or a cz or a ruger and it will be fine, it will shoot as well as your needs require.

[Frank]

Nick, you can reload in Northern Ireland, but not in southern Ireland.

Its confusing enough though, id say you just got slightly mixed up. :blink:

Edited September 11, 2005 by Frank

[dunganick]

fair point mate, i wasnt aware of that, you learn something new every day :blink:

 

so there you go.....you can handload (if you do) so light barrels can have a round suited to them to get just as much accuracy as a heavy barrel

[Big Dog]

Nick, explain to me the difference between "sporting and target shooting" at a range. Are they not both shooting at targets if at a range.

 

I ask as someone who has never been at a range yet and finding it hard to get into a club.

[Gemini]

Big dog, there are many types of target shooting, ranging from air rifle, to clay pigeons, right up to 50 cal rifle.

All of them should be considered “Target shooting”.

The main thing to consider is the TYPE of target shooting you wish to do.

I shoot at a small indoor club that used to shoot both .22 rifle and pistol. Obviously we can’t use pistols now, but the pistol men turned to .22 underlever rifles to carry on with “Gallery rifle” target shooting. This is their preferred sort of shooting, but my preferred type of target shooting is “Prone rifle” using a dedicated match rifle with aperture sights and shooting off a sling.

The same thing applies to fullbore shooting, where you can either use any type/calibre of rifle to shoot either bench-rest, long-range or simply shooting for groups; it’s still target shooting.

But, you may decide that you want to shoot dedicated target rifle using a “Swing”, “Paramount” or any other type of open sighted rifle shooting at 300, 500 and 600 yds, again shooting prone and off a sling.

It’s all great sport and each has its own degree of difficulty, although shooting with open/aperture sights does present a challenge in its own right.

I enjoy all of these sports and can’t understand why people argue amongst themselves over the differences. We are all “Shooters” after all. :blink:

G.M.

[dunganick]

when i say sporting target i mean a competition which is aimed at sporting shooters. normally speaking you shoot at a fox,boar,deer,goat from positions which you would normal use in field conditions.

 

for example the stalker test is generally recognised to be a stadard deer target shot at 100 yards.

 

two catogories .224 ->.240 and . 240 upwards.

 

the course of fire is;

 

2 shots prone with bipod or rest

2 shots sitting with double sticks

2 shots knealing with double sticks

2 shots standing with double sticks

2 shots from a bench using no rest apart frmo the aid of a sporting sling.

 

this is mared out of 100.

 

highest personal score 98 :blink:

 

in this type of competiton the bull is 10cm's so the stringing is not an issue at all. even when shot with the 6.5x55

 

as gemini says this is a form of target sports despite replicating sporting activities.

 

*****

i must add having just read my post i didnt make it clear this is on a range at a target, not a live quary

Edited September 12, 2005 by dunganick

[Big Dog]

Yes Gemini your right again, they are all targets even the clays, I wasn't thinking right. Going them by that definition I have been to a range (clay pigeon shooting), I even call it a range myself :*) .

 

Two more questions:

1. Nick what is a sporting sling :( .

 

2. Is the Prone position lying down to use the rifle :blink: .

 

3. Gemini, from you post and other post I've read on the fourm, it seems you guys can't shoot pistols. Is that true??

 

In Northern Ireland you can shoot pistols if you are in a club that is registered to do so. I think you need to do some training b4 you can purchase your own but then you can own one and keep it at home.

 

 

Possible good news As you know I have been trying to get into a club for months. The first problem was finding on. I have been trying to get to one club since May and keep getting put of with promises of the next event.

 

On Friday last at my local dealers clay RANGE B) (thought you would appreciate that Gemini, I got talking to a guy who is in a club nearer where I live but use the same range, up to 600yrs. They also have a .22 indoor range 10 mins from me. Well about 1 hour ago the guy phone me and said he was at a club meeting last night and proposed me as a new member. WoW :thumbs: . That was a unexpected quick result. They shoot .22, I think pistol and full bore, although the full bore section may be over subscribed??? He is to call me this week as soon as he gets an update.

 

Heres hoping :thumbs:

[Frank]

Great news Big Dog, hope it works out for you. :(

Good Luck. :blink:

[dunganick]

Two more questions:

1. Nick what is a sporting sling  .

 

2. Is the Prone position lying down to use the rifle  .

 

a sporting sling is one just like you would have on your rifle, as opposed to a target sling which is used by people when shooting things like target 22 or the 7.62 matches (iron sights) these slings are split up and have attachments so you can hold onto them with your hand and it effectively makes your hand, rifle and body join rigid. i think thats the best explaination i can give, i dont use them so i cant say how effective they are.

 

and yes prone is when your on your belly shooting. :(

 

congratulations with the club

[Gemini]

Couple of sites to have a look at. The first will give you an insight into the prone position and the second will bore you to tears about the rules. :(

 

 

http://www.galwayrifleclub.net/images/2004...cs/DSC00008.jpg

http://www.snipercountry.com/Training/PronePosition.asp

 

 

G.M.

[Big Dog]

Thanks Guys, very helpful :(