country-bumpkin Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 right i really have a problem with my 16m old ess bitch. she as stopped picking up about 5 weeks ago and she will not for love nore money pick up any thing i have tired all sorts to encourage her am lost with her and don't no where to go from her i Carnot afford proper lessons every thing else is spot on in her training so help is needed any hints or tips to get her picking up would be great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 what was going on when she stopped? Was she out hunting, were you training, was she picking up a bird, a ball, a dummy? What were you doing as a training program? Give as much information as possible. NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country-bumpkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 we was out training usual thing using standard dummies/rugby ball type dummy plane and covered dummies to give variety she was getting really good at retrieving blind retrieving after that i moved on to cold birds and rabbits just the same fine no problem took her out one day shooting had a few rabbits picked up fine few days later she never picked up again dummies cold birds rabbits warm kill nothing she just looks at me when i throw a dummy or runs in opp direction i can not think what i have done wrong am at a lost with her .boredom sprang to mind but she as stopped picking up anything had her to vets with her mouth but she fine Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechessam Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 If she is refusing to pick up then dont give her the choice. Dont allow her to retrieve for now, take a break and then leave her wanting the dummy until she is ready to do it again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country-bumpkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 tied that Beechessam 3 week ago she as no interest what so ever to pick up she dont even get exited over the dummys i forgot to say we have a 5 month old pup ess dog but they never go out together they get on very well this picking up lark as beat me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 we was out training usual thing using standard dummies/rugby ball type dummy plane and covered dummies to give varietyshe was getting really good at retrieving blind retrieving after that i moved on to cold birds and rabbits just the same fine no problem took her out one day shooting had a few rabbits picked up fine few days later she never picked up again dummies cold birds rabbits warm kill nothing she just looks at me when i throw a dummy or runs in opp direction i can not think what i have done wrong am at a lost with her .boredom sprang to mind but she as stopped picking up anything had her to vets with her mouth but she fine Did you do any retrieving after the shot rabbits and when she would not pick up again? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country-bumpkin Posted February 22, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 i still take jess every other day now 2 see if she will pick up but no joy. i also still take her shooting but pickup my self 2 see if she follows suit some times i throw what i have shot she just sniffs and and looks at me Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 You never know forsure without having been there and seen it,but I'm tipping that she may be confused due to the different retrieve articles being used. Normally you don't want to increase possesive tendencies in retrievers, but as you are in this position it can't do any harm. Here's a few ideas; 1. Get a tennis ball and when you are out with the dog bounce it against the ground and catch it. If the dog shows interest tease her with it, but don't let her have it. Bounce it on the blind side so she can't get to it. Keep bouncing it and teasing her until she's absolutely crazy for it then let her intercept it. As soon as she's got it, chase her and pretend to try and get it off her. If this works then repeat until she's reliably chasing the 'dropped' ball and keeping hold of it. 2. Same thing, but put a tennis ball down then circle it around 2 feet from it whilst staring constantly at the ball. Crouch down a little and move your shoulders side to side with your arms outstretched so your hands move back and forward. Maintain your concentration on the ball. Once the dog shows interest creep slowly and deliberately up to the ball as though going to pick it up. Hopefully she will snatch it from you. If she does, chase her and pretend to try and get it off her. 3. If the above works then once she is fetching the ball try introducing another dog to impart some competition. The other dog needs to be keen to retrieve, but not aggresive. Initially hold dog 2 back until your dog has set off after the ball, then let the other dog go. Gradually decrease the hold time after throwing. Once your dog can be seen to be racing the other dog start to introduce some other types of retrieve articles. Not before. Best of luck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WGD Posted February 22, 2010 Report Share Posted February 22, 2010 You never know forsure without having been there and seen it,but I'm tipping that she may be confused due to the different retrieve articles being used. Normally you don't want to increase possesive tendencies in retrievers, but as you are in this position it can't do any harm. Here's a few ideas; 1. Get a tennis ball and when you are out with the dog bounce it against the ground and catch it. If the dog shows interest tease her with it, but don't let her have it. Bounce it on the blind side so she can't get to it. Keep bouncing it and teasing her until she's absolutely crazy for it then let her intercept it. As soon as she's got it, chase her and pretend to try and get it off her. If this works then repeat until she's reliably chasing the 'dropped' ball and keeping hold of it. 2. Same thing, but put a tennis ball down then circle it around 2 feet from it whilst staring constantly at the ball. Crouch down a little and move your shoulders side to side with your arms outstretched so your hands move back and forward. Maintain your concentration on the ball. Once the dog shows interest creep slowly and deliberately up to the ball as though going to pick it up. Hopefully she will snatch it from you. If she does, chase her and pretend to try and get it off her. 3. If the above works then once she is fetching the ball try introducing another dog to impart some competition. The other dog needs to be keen to retrieve, but not aggresive. Initially hold dog 2 back until your dog has set off after the ball, then let the other dog go. Gradually decrease the hold time after throwing. Once your dog can be seen to be racing the other dog start to introduce some other types of retrieve articles. Not before. Best of luck. I agree, tease to encourage retrieving.... do not correct running in and do not issue any sort of recall, just get the dog lifting something. ATB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechessam Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I wouldn't be talking about a few weeks but much longer. The shooting season is now over with the odd exception. The more you try to get her to retrieve and fail the more you reinforce the fact that she will not do it. There is obviously an issue that has caused this but there will be no quick fix. You are unaware of what caused it so do not know how to reverse it. Put her away and let the issue fade from her memory and the start all over again very very slowly right from scratch, that is probably your best chance of over coming the problem. If you keep plugging away and keep failing it will become almost irreversible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
new to the flock Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 After the day of rabbits, how long was it until you tried retrieving again, and what did she do? NTTF Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
country-bumpkin Posted February 23, 2010 Author Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 thanks peeps for the help am going to do what beechessam and uk poacher as recomended start back at begining and with the tennis ball i started to day but she didnt want to know the ball at all kept looking away when i showed her it looks like its going to take some time i will post every month to let you know how she doing but if you would like to say something that my help please do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 thanks peeps for the help am going to do what beechessam and uk poacher as recomended start back at begining and with the tennis ball i started to day but she didnt want to know the ball at all kept looking away when i showed her it looks like its going to take some time i will post every month to let you know how she doing but if you would like to say something that my help please do My guess is the dog got kicked by a rabbit and is now refusing to pick up for fear of it happening again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian28 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 As jason said prob rabbit kick in face. tennis balls dont seem to work well this sounds daft but works. Get 3 or 4 of your used SOCKS roll fist one up then use others to make dummy, by putting over first and folding back they love socks use in hall and big fuss on return. dont go back to dummies dead rabbits for a whie stick with socks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 I have to disagree about tennis balls. They are very usefull as play articles in that you can bounce them against walls and create movement that interests the dog. Also, they blend well with grass and encourage dogs to use their nose rather than their eyes to search. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian28 Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Most dogs love tennis balls yes this is not most dogs got a retrieve prob at mo i suggested using in hall no grass there feel free to disagree but this works Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 More interested to know why the dog ain't working at this stage instead of what, inanimate, will work for getting it back to retrieving. Gundogs don't just go off their retrieving, and a "rabbit kick" would be catnip to most gundogs. They love the rough and tumble. My 27-pound spaniel took out a fox two nights ago and didn't wait for it to expire before retrieving it. So Bumpkin, Dan's asked about the interim between the last day of rabbiting and when retrieving was next attempted with no interest from the dog. What say thee? Also, "stopped picking up"--is that meaning the dog was actually picking up on shoots, or just picking up whatever--inanimate objects or cold game--it was asked? MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beechessam Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 (edited) Exactly as I said the handler does not know why the dog stopped. Unless this is known he will struggle to over come the problem as he does not know the cause. Time off then start from scratch, we all like a holiday and so do our dogs. In time memories will fade but, nothing breeds sucess like sucess but if you keep failing all you will do is endorse and ingrain the behaviour. Take a break! Edited February 23, 2010 by Beechessam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasons gold Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 More interested to know why the dog ain't working at this stage instead of what, inanimate, will work for getting it back to retrieving. Gundogs don't just go off their retrieving, and a "rabbit kick" would be catnip to most gundogs. They love the rough and tumble. My 27-pound spaniel took out a fox two nights ago and didn't wait for it to expire before retrieving it. So Bumpkin, Dan's asked about the interim between the last day of rabbiting and when retrieving was next attempted with no interest from the dog. What say thee? Also, "stopped picking up"--is that meaning the dog was actually picking up on shoots, or just picking up whatever--inanimate objects or cold game--it was asked? MG A rabbit kick to a sensitive bitch will not be like catnip and can and will put some dogs of retrieving or it can also make them a bit hard mouthed probably like your one with the fox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cracker Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Now Jason, I said "retrieved before it had expired," thus while still alive," not half-eaten or chewed on whilst still alive. (I.e., no hardmouthing yet detected with any of my spaniels, from goose wingbeating or "kick" between the eyes nor anything else Reckon it would be a mighty sensitive spaniel to the point of skittishness to be put off retrieving by a rabbit. Don't really think taking a "holiday" from retrieving is the answer, either, but it could let the handler and dog clear their heads a little. MG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKPoacher Posted February 23, 2010 Report Share Posted February 23, 2010 Most dogs love tennis balls yes this is not most dogs got a retrieve prob at mo i suggested using in hall no grass there feel free to disagree but this works I'm sure it works 99.99% of the time. The problem here is trying to encourage the dog to overcome its reluctance to pick up anything in its mouth. It has to want to pick up the object. Play may do it, and a ball will stimulate play to a greater extent than a sock dummy. I'm not saying that a sock dummy is not a good way of training. Just maybe not as good for this situation IMO. At the end of the day, what works for the dog in question is the right method. It might not work for the next dog with identical symptoms, but it is right if it works on this one. That's what makes training so frustrating and at the same time fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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