Training a Lab to flush game

[tom_0787]

My pup Leo is now 5 months old. I cannot believe how well he is coming along with training. I am fully aware of the risks of rushing training but he thrives on it. He will stop/sit at distance on the whistle/hand signal (longest I have stopped him before the release command is 2 minutes) I can stop him on a retrieve and send him either left or right if hes having trouble. H's very steady for a pup even though I havent really stressed this in training but he wont go for a retrieve until released. He's getting the back command but that needs a bit more work. He's like a sponge, absorbing everything I try and so willing to please (for now )

 

One question I have is that as I want to use him in the hide and as a rough/walked up dog, is it possible to teach a Lab to hunt close to you to flush game without him thinking he has to retrieve it? I know this is a bit advanced for now and he will never quarter like a lab but has anyone else taught their lab to stop on the flush?

 

I took him out without my gun (used a starter pistol of for some dummy and steadyness training) and we went through a part of the shoot which holds a few pheasant and rabbits and he was happily running around within 15 yards of me through heavy cover but he didnt even notice several rabbits that bolted.

 

Any tips?

[Duffryn]

As you say you will struggle trying to teach him to quarter and hunt in the same way that a cocker or ESS will. In terms of stopping on a flush this should be no problem at all. Make use of a rabbit pen to get some practice in. I know that you say that you recongnise the risk of too much training to soon but go easy on him - Personally I would leave this until he is a lot older.

[WGD]

If you want to train him to hunt do it the same way as you put pattern into a spaniel, hunt him onto pre-laid "finds" - dummies or tennis balls.

 

BUT, and it's a big one, IMO you are pushing this dog too far at such a young age. Quick to learn, quick to ruin.

 

I have a 6 month old lab pup here, he sits to voice and hand signal and I've just introduced the whistle. He recalls. He doesn't pull on the lead. That's it for now. Retrieving is just masses of fun, runs in every time, flys back with it and bumbles around me all pleased with himself until I take the dummy from him. That's just my way and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've been there and got the T-shirt with a spaniel who seemed to take it all on very young, then she learned what life was about and got all adolescent - training upside down and back to front and had to start it all again, from the beginning because the basic foundations (sit, recall, heelwork) had been forgotten in amongst all the other stuff she seemed to have been readily taking on.

[Spaniel]

Agree with WGD my Lab is 7 months old, it gets training on Lead work, sitting and retrieving, which some times is to just let her run in after the dummy or i may give her the sit command first...most of the work is just done in the house calling her up to me to come in close with her head up and sit without telling her to sit....(If David Lisset can do this with a springer, so can i with a Lab )

 

I have seen all singing and dancing dogs at 6 months and it isnt long until problems arrises...slow down and have fun plenty of time yet

Edited February 13, 2011 by Spaniel

[kent]

If you want to train him to hunt do it the same way as you put pattern into a spaniel, hunt him onto pre-laid "finds" - dummies or tennis balls.

 

BUT, and it's a big one, IMO you are pushing this dog too far at such a young age. Quick to learn, quick to ruin.

 

I have a 6 month old lab pup here, he sits to voice and hand signal and I've just introduced the whistle. He recalls. He doesn't pull on the lead. That's it for now. Retrieving is just masses of fun, runs in every time, flys back with it and bumbles around me all pleased with himself until I take the dummy from him. That's just my way and I'm not saying you're wrong, but I've been there and got the T-shirt with a spaniel who seemed to take it all on very young, then she learned what life was about and got all adolescent - training upside down and back to front and had to start it all again, from the beginning because the basic foundations (sit, recall, heelwork) had been forgotten in amongst all the other stuff she seemed to have been readily taking on.

 

Yep, they just do as they are told as pups - but troubles on it's way

[activeviii]

slow down a little kidda. its great that you can get it all out of the pup and that things are going well but you havent had the teenager bit yet and that when it will all go wrong and you will have to start all over again.

 

all you do is put an old head on young shoulders and make the dog old before his time. trust me, i have one already. still does ok but all the hard work i put in was forgotten and he wouldn't get things right. things are taking a lot longer to get now.

 

 

the pups nose may not be fully developed yet and he probably doesnt know what all the different scents are meaning. give a chance for the nose to developer and you may very well find it will come naturally.

[cracker]

Tom, is this your first gundog to have trained? If so, the tip is to follow the consensus above and slow down. But...if you've trained other gundogs, and are asking about a Lab and training it specifically to quarter, it's not too early, if you approach it intending and enabling the pup to have fun in "learning the ropes." (And impart the questing as WGD notes - although it's whale of a sight easier using assistants with birds than pre-lain tennis balls.)

 

As it happens, Labs are the most popular flushing dogs in North America - no, they don't quarter with a spaniel's precision and they don't crush cover like cockers (or Boykins), but they are imminently trainable and respond to what you're asking of them if it's taught with consistency and fairness afield.

 

You can train any gundog at any age, advanced work included, if you have a grasp of your dog's abilities, and know what you want to bring out in it - and how to bring it out with the right approach. All mine generally have been running trials by eight months, and years later there's no discernible lack of interest or enthusiasm - nor loss of steadiness. And all because they've been trained as if it were play and given the opportunity to remedy their mistakes with more play - not barracking, strident corrections nor e-collar reminders.

 

Good luck,

 

MG

[WGD]

What age do you look to steady up a lab MG?

 

For me it's more about the dog than the breed, I'll look to steady a hot dog earlier than a biddable one that I am confident I can reign in once the desire to retrieve for fun is completely instilled.

 

As far as the OP's query re getting a lab to hunt goes - to go back to that, sorry, you had a lot of advice telling you to slow down and not much telling you how to achieve what you want. As said, a lab will never hunt like a springer or cocker (or boykin ) but they will hunt and flush game if trained accordingly. Beating lines and 'keepers kennels up and down the country are full of them to do just that.

 

If you're as fortunate as cracker and you have someone to help and the ground to use birds it will bring the dog on in leaps and bounds, but the principal of what you trying to achieve, in the mind of the dog is that if he uses his nose and his pace and sticks close to you in an area you have asked him to hunt over he will be rewarded with a "find".

 

Labs ARE hunting dogs, how else do they find a blind retrieve or a runner? So it's about tuning that instinct and channelling into a series of commands and actions so the dogs behaviour rewards him and you both.

 

Good luck

[cracker]

WGD, "steady up" has a spectrum of meanings - steadying for trials as in sitting steady until released, very early, at 12-14 weeks. Done as I often train alone, thus walk out and throw marks for the pup at 150-200 yards, then release "remotely" on the pup's name by shouting from afar.

 

Steadying, as in steady to flush - NOT for my Labs, they aren't used for "hunting" or rough shooting (though I'm glad you brought their capabilities to the attention of the original poster, and even that's irrespective of "pointing Labs" and how they're steadied). (Don't believe in such animals, myself, "standing" game maybe; pointing it - uh-uh when it comes to Labs.) Spaniels, though, are steadied from the start before they're exposed to game. That goes for Boykins too as they're the double-barrel (albeit .410 bore) in my arsenal.

 

Appreciate also what you're saying alluding to individual dogs over training a breed.

 

MG

[WGD]

WGD, "steady up" has a spectrum of meanings - steadying for trials as in sitting steady until released, very early, at 12-14 weeks. Done as I often train alone, thus walk out and throw marks for the pup at 150-200 yards, then release "remotely" on the pup's name by shouting from afar.

 

That was what I was referring to by steadiness, awaiting a release command to retrieve. I think it's fair to say that 12 - 14 weeks would be considered very young for that type of work this side of the pond... but if it works! Would be dull if we all did things the same way

[cracker]

Actually, WGD, that kind of marking drill - called "poor man's singles" as in a single retrieve v. multiple marks - is seen over here as helping to steady a pup. How? Because your back's to the pup as you walk out and the pup's focusing on you, not knowing when you might stop, turn and throw a dummy (or bird). These dogs live to retrieve, as most all Labs do. So you get a pretty intense focus with every step into the distance. Now have they been known to "run out" (think run in) before bidden? I'll never tell.

 

MG