Bali Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 (edited) Hi can anyone give me a general guide to the powder amount they use for a 135grn solid hollow point 30-06 using Vihtavouri. My data jumps from 125grn bullet weight to 150 grn. I went out and shot a few rounds with 46.5grns powder and they were a little eratic ie 4-5 inch groups at 100 yards not sure wether to go up or down in powder. Put some factory loads through and got my 1 inch groups. Thanks Nick Thanks to everyone who offered advice I now have the answer to my original question Edited October 14, 2011 by Bali Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 12, 2011 Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Hi can anyone give me a general guide to the powder amount they use for a 135grn solid hollow point 30-06 using Vihtavouri. My data jumps from 125grn bullet weight to 150 grn. I went out and shot a few rounds with 46.5grns powder and they were a little eratic ie 4-5 inch groups at 100 yards not sure wether to go up or down in powder. Put some factory loads through and got my 1 inch groups. Thanks Nick changing the powdr charge isnt going to do anything mate with a group sixe that big,your rifle is telling you A.the bullet is wrong B.the powder is wrong C.your loading is rubbish D.something is moving on the rifle lets start from the begining and see what we can do what are you using powder bullets cases primers rifle make scope make Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 12, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 12, 2011 Factory loads grouping really well powder Vihtavuori N140 bullets The gunroom UK 134 Solid hollow point cases Once fired Lapua primers CCI Large Rifle rifle make Parker Hale scope make Leupold not long been reloading 30-06 usually .223 Could it be the crimp I put on not consistent (lee factory crimp) Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Factory loads grouping really well powder Vihtavuori N140 bullets The gunroom UK 134 Solid hollow point cases Once fired Lapua primers CCI Large Rifle rifle make Parker Hale scope make Leupold not long been reloading 30-06 usually .223 Could it be the crimp I put on not consistent (lee factory crimp) Cheers for staters bin the crimp not only is the LEE crimp die **** you dont need to crimp,it can cause all sorts of problems,realod again without the crimp and see what happens Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Vhit N140 and a 130 grn bullet suggests 52 grn max, work up slowly as is good practice from about 48 grns. At those sort of group though i realy think something other than the actual charge is wrong. Are the factory rounds a lot heavier bullets? it seems like the bullets are not stabilising to me. Perhaps your actually putting them together incorrectly? it might be you need heavier bullets for your gun 30-06 is normally at its best with the heavier end of things. Please get an experianced loader to check what your doing and actually re-weighing the charges on thier gear might be a good idea as a starter for safety's sake if nothing else. I cannot stress enough 4-5" at 100 yds is unlikely to be the charge unless you have way too little in (which is highly dangerous BTW ) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Vhit N140 and a 130 grn bullet suggests 52 grn max, work up slowly as is good practice from about 48 grns. At those sort of group though i realy think something other than the actual charge is wrong. Are the factory rounds a lot heavier bullets? it seems like the bullets are not stabilising to me. Perhaps your actually putting them together incorrectly? it might be you need heavier bullets for your gun 30-06 is normally at its best with the heavier end of things. Please get an experianced loader to check what your doing and actually re-weighing the charges on thier gear might be a good idea as a starter for safety's sake if nothing else. I cannot stress enough 4-5" at 100 yds is unlikely to be the charge unless you have way too little in (which is highly dangerous BTW ) Thanks for your replies the factory loads are a 200grn and group really well.I have crimped .223 hundreds of times with no problems but I understand there are fors and against wether to crimp or not I will give it ago without. I measured the loads as normal twice each time so its not that. Thinking last night it could be the OAL which was bang on 3.34 the rounds chambered were quite tight I will measure the factory loads and copy that. I have got the same bullet in 150grn I will give that ago too Cheers Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thanks for your replies the factory loads are a 200grn and group really well.I have crimped .223 hundreds of times with no problems but I understand there are fors and against wether to crimp or not I will give it ago without. I measured the loads as normal twice each time so its not that. Thinking last night it could be the OAL which was bang on 3.34 the rounds chambered were quite tight I will measure the factory loads and copy that. I have got the same bullet in 150grn I will give that ago too Cheers Nick If your used to crimping i garantee that aint your issue, done correctly it makes a round of very low run-out easy to achieve (i dont do it myself mind). I should be trying something of 180 grns with H4350 or N160 personally- the groups you are achieving realy indicates major re-loading error (unlikely if your already experianced with .223) or most likely an unstable bullet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I am thinking the bullets, not that they are no good just don't like my rifle .will try heavier of same make just to see. need to stick with n140 (new tub ) .of course could have been driver error as l had been shooting black powder pistol all morning ? Will have another go later thanks for replies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 My first port of call would be the bullet, if is what i think you are describing, a monolithic copper, turned bullet with driving bands then id try something more proven first. The reason they are odd weights is the fundamental density difference between themselves and copper/lead examples. They can be difficult! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) What ever else you do KEEP CRIMPING . No matter what the self styled experts try to tell you, crimping will tighten up your groups . If you dont know who the self styled experts on hear are , it will soon become apparent to you . Harnser . Edited October 13, 2011 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thanks fister they are a specialist bullet bought from bisely trade fair meant to be the best but I suppose they would say that ? Not copper, brass solid and quite deep hollow point went straight through 5inch wood without expanding which I thought was odd no good for deer I'm thinking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What ever else you do KEEP CRIMPING . No matter what the self styled experts try to tell you, crimping will tighten up your groups . If you dont know who the self styled experts on hear are , it will soon become apparent to you . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Cheers mate but crimping is another story for another day but I do and will keep crimping need to sort this rifle out before going after boar in Croatia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chockmoose Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 (edited) Cheers mate but crimping is another story for another day but I do and will keep crimping need to sort this rifle out before going after boar in Croatia Monolithic's are, in my experience, a PITA for load development. I went through this with Barnes when they introduced the 'Barnes x' (I used them for piggys...oooh such a long time ago...) They would never group very well, but were ok for running boar. Probably better to use something you are confident with than to try and quickly sort a load out! I find a bog standard 150gn in the 'aught 6 is perfect for boar. The lee factory crimp is a superb tool, I generally use it for all my hunting loads - do not believe all the "expert" B S. The crimp will make that consistent start pressure that one wants and keep the seating depth 'safe'! Do not be put off by the internet experts who really should know better, they just show that their knowledge is sadly lacking. Edited October 13, 2011 by chockmoose Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vermincinerator Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 What ever else you do KEEP CRIMPING . No matter what the self styled experts try to tell you, crimping will tighten up your groups . If you dont know who the self styled experts on hear are , it will soon become apparent to you . Harnser . 27 years of handloading experience and over 60,000 rnds loaded tells me otherwise Ian. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 27 years of handloading experience and over 60,000 rnds loaded tells me otherwise Ian. Perhaps if you had crimped you would have had more accurate ammo . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 27 years of handloading experience and over 60,000 rnds loaded tells me otherwise Ian. mate dont get invloved these people havnt got a clue,they read it in a book and they think its gospel let them get on with it,they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 mate dont get invloved these people havnt got a clue,they read it in a book and they think its gospel let them get on with it,they wouldnt know consitant neck tension if they had a rope around there neck Thanks for that, you say yourself you made alot of mistakes starting out I was just asking for some advice, not to be told, to get on with it Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Thanks for that, you say yourself you made alot of mistakes starting out I was just asking for some advice, not to be told, to get on with it Nick mate my comment was for Ian not for you yes we all make mistakes,its long learning curve,some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo whilst other try to ring the very best from there re loading always best to ask questions I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money reloading has come a long way since the dark ages which most on here seem to be stuck in Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 mate my comment was for Ian not for you yes we all make mistakes,its long learning curve,some people are happy to stay with the basics and use sub standard ammo whilst other try to ring the very best from there re loading always best to ask questions I wished I would have had the internet when I first started reloading it would have saved me loads of time and money reloading has come a long way since the dark ages which most on here seem to be stuck in Oh thats OK then I'm eager to do it right and yes I do alot of reading but as I couldn't find a load for 34.9 grns I took a long time calculating averages and came up with 46.5 grns V140 as that did not seem to work as well as I thought it should I wanted to know if I could go higher or lower and stay safe.I think rather than cause any arguments I will get some bullets with proven load data and stick with them Thanks all Nick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 I will wadger its them brass bullets for sure Guys there is a lot of very competant handloaders who swear by crimping, i have no need for it personally but it certainly aint a bad practice. It gives good consentricity and more even neck tentions than many other methods, so calm down it aint coz the guy crimps Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hi Kent reading the load data again I think you are near it starting at 48 and working up I shall try 49 with the 134.9 bullets and 150 bullets of the same make and design and see where I go from there. Feeling a bit more positive now and believe 46.5 was to low at least I will give these bullets another chance Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 Hi Kent reading the load data again I think you are near it starting at 48 and working up I shall try 49 with the 134.9 bullets and 150 bullets of the same make and design and see where I go from there. Feeling a bit more positive now and believe 46.5 was to low at least I will give these bullets another chance if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work,and please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bali Posted October 13, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 if the bullets are anything like Barns solid copper they need to be driven hard for them to work,and please dont crimp and ruin a your bullets and cases,theres no need in these modern times when using good dies By driven hard do you agree to work up from 49grns Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ackley Posted October 13, 2011 Report Share Posted October 13, 2011 By driven hard do you agree to work up from 49grns oh yes,does these bullets you have got look like barns TSX http://www.barnesbullets.com/products/rifle/tsx-bullet/ Barns are a great bullet if you decide to try them,Ive had great results from roe deer to Elan bulls in Africa Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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