Redgum Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Frenchieboy you sound like a well respected and generous fellow and don't deserve this treatment but some permission holders deserve a swift kick up the rear sometimes. I MANAGE deer for Natural England and am licensed by them to do so on their land. The roaming fallow population are often in trouble with local property owners, munching through their posh gardens and the locals point the finger in Natural Englands general direction which ends up back at me. These properties border farmland that is not under my control and when seeking permission to control these animals I get the answer' we have a friend that comes and shoots the deer'. In alot of cases the 'friend' will only turn up when he can see a herd of 40 from his 4x4 if at all. In other cases the shooting rights have been sold on to someone who wants loads of does and just wants to shoot medal bucks, a disaster for deer control. I would have no trouble in stepping into these permissions without hesitation as the poor local residents are pulling their hair out with frustration. Why do some stalkers like to just collect ground without having the time to do the job. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 29, 2012 Report Share Posted July 29, 2012 Frenchieboy you sound like a well respected and generous fellow and don't deserve this treatment but some permission holders deserve a swift kick up the rear sometimes. I MANAGE deer for Natural England and am licensed by them to do so on their land. The roaming fallow population are often in trouble with local property owners, munching through their posh gardens and the locals point the finger in Natural Englands general direction which ends up back at me. These properties border farmland that is not under my control and when seeking permission to control these animals I get the answer' we have a friend that comes and shoots the deer'. In alot of cases the 'friend' will only turn up when he can see a herd of 40 from his 4x4 if at all. In other cases the shooting rights have been sold on to someone who wants loads of does and just wants to shoot medal bucks, a disaster for deer control. I would have no trouble in stepping into these permissions without hesitation as the poor local residents are pulling their hair out with frustration. Why do some stalkers like to just collect ground without having the time to do the job. This is happening all over. Its hard to educate landowners. They think they're being smart and getting paid to have deer controlled when in reality a bunch of amateurs with more money than sense are stripping out dominant males, utterly ignoring female culling and triggering a free-for-all. This is the situation on my main vermin shooting ground. The owner is slowly coming round to the fact that the damage he's sustaining is exceeding the paltry income he gets from leasing the stalking and if he really wants sustainable deer control there is no such thing as a free lunch. But its an uphill struggle. Like so many others he's got used to having his bit of cash in his back pocket every year and just can't see the economic contradiction going on in front of him. I've offered to do all the culling for nothing and take only my material costs out of the carcase and trophy revenue (what there is of it, which is next to nothing) with him keeping the rest. I wish he'd take me up on it if only to let him see for himself in cold hard figures the farce that is the 'commercial' lease he's running at the moment. But I won't hold my breath. I can see a case for all deer stalking being conducted only by professionals under license from Natural England so this hobby stalking masquerading as commercial management menace can be brought under control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 With respect to the last two or three replies maybe I should clarify that there is no question of anyone wanting to shoot deer or game on my permissions so the "paid for deer or game shooting rights" are not in question. Having said that I can see where some concerns are raised with a few of these "well off Gung-Ho game shooters and wannabe stalkers" trying to use their money to muscle in on others game permissions and stalking grounds. I am very fortunate in the fact that all of the farmers whose land I shoot on (General vermin control) know me very well (Many of my permissions have come about through recommendation) and do not want anyone else shooting on their land unless they are accompanied by me, so it looks like I am doing something right! I have a very good and strong working relationship with the local farmers as anyone that I have taken with me as a guest will be able to confirm! This is why when these two lads used my name and said that I had sent them it immediately got the alarm bells ringing with the farmer and he told them where to go! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 This is happening all over. Its hard to educate landowners. They think they're being smart and getting paid to have deer controlled when in reality a bunch of amateurs with more money than sense are stripping out dominant males, utterly ignoring female culling and triggering a free-for-all. This is the situation on my main vermin shooting ground. The owner is slowly coming round to the fact that the damage he's sustaining is exceeding the paltry income he gets from leasing the stalking and if he really wants sustainable deer control there is no such thing as a free lunch. But its an uphill struggle. Like so many others he's got used to having his bit of cash in his back pocket every year and just can't see the economic contradiction going on in front of him. I've offered to do all the culling for nothing and take only my material costs out of the carcase and trophy revenue (what there is of it, which is next to nothing) with him keeping the rest. I wish he'd take me up on it if only to let him see for himself in cold hard figures the farce that is the 'commercial' lease he's running at the moment. But I won't hold my breath. I can see a case for all deer stalking being conducted only by professionals under license from Natural England so this hobby stalking masquerading as commercial management menace can be brought under control. I think the best arrangement for the landowner, deer and stalker are an equal share in carcass sales and an agreed correctly produced cull plan reviewed anually. Nothing wrong with an odd pay for the day stalker comming on acompanied by the stalker but again cash should be split. As soon as anyone goes this lease is worth £x it all goes to rat droppings and greed IMO. landowner going for the biggest up-front price, stalker going for the best return on investment each year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Frenchy hi from Bacup not sure if we haven't met out and about Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frenchieboy Posted July 30, 2012 Author Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 Frenchy hi from Bacup not sure if we haven't met out and about Hi Gerry, I'm not sure either, maybe you could jog my memory? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gerry31 Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 My shooting buddy is tash and we shoot alot on kk land you may know him he's the local milk man and his lad breeds collies in the fat one with Arctic blond hair lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gimlet Posted July 30, 2012 Report Share Posted July 30, 2012 I think the best arrangement for the landowner, deer and stalker are an equal share in carcass sales and an agreed correctly produced cull plan reviewed anually. Nothing wrong with an odd pay for the day stalker comming on acompanied by the stalker but again cash should be split. As soon as anyone goes this lease is worth £x it all goes to rat droppings and greed IMO. landowner going for the biggest up-front price, stalker going for the best return on investment each year Agree 100%. That is precisely the situation, and an ideal solution to funding small-scale management. I think few land owners and not nearly enough stalkers understand how many females and youngsters need to be taken out just to keep the population stable, never mind reducing it, and I wonder how many cheque-book stalkers can be bothered or are capable of conducting an accurate population survey and producing a cull plan. There's many who seem to think they're going to make their fortunes at the game dealer out of doe carcases only to return to the day job when they see how much time and diesel they're getting through for so little return. Trouble is many farmers can't see that rather than contracting out deer management on a sound commercial basis, they're more often being bribed into a contract of mismangement, which will be at their own expense in the long run. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kent Posted July 31, 2012 Report Share Posted July 31, 2012 " bribed into a contract of mismangement" I like that yep, that sums it up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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