Is there a difference in training

[kent]

The question often comes up. " is there a difference in training a trialing dog and a peg dog", "a peg dog and a rough shooting dog" or "a wildfowlers dog and a rough shooters dog". I say there is as we must train for the task at hand. With the exeption that all must have the basics

quite simply there aint a need for a trialing dog to lie still between your legs laid in a wet sand hole for hours waiting for geese . retrieve teal dropped somewere behind me in the dark, rarely can we direct a dog to the fall as not only dont we see it, we wont see the darn dog either once it leaves us its on its own. Most wildfowlers dogs can become unsteady as they work out that downed duck can float off down gutters pretty fast to be lost and many get excused for this under the circumstances yet you wouldn't have that from a peg dog (not that i think running in isnt a fault in a dog) just major crime v minor one. Nice tight heelwork is a given with a trial dog but walking off the marsh slipping in the mud and jumping flooded gutters in the dark frankly i dont want the dog wrapping itelf round my left leg as i would end up falling over it, though neither do i want it taking itself off looking for a bitch or self hunting.

Asking a friend and sheepdog trialer if there was much difference in how he trained a trial dog and a farm dog he quipped " not if you want your sheep off the hill in bunches of 12" the hard bit with working one seriously for both though he claimed was that dogs are put out for biting yet if the sheep get to know your dog has no teeth they will stand up to it and refuse to get onto a trailer etc- so sometimes a farm dog can and will press the issue. I do see this walking my own gundogs ammong the sheep they certainly have quite some attitude towards the dog, that i wait for as the second stage in sheep breaking

 

[silver pigeon 3]

Good question Kent. I think there has to be differences in the training once you get past the basic sit/stay/heel etc, as we expect the dogs to behave in a completely different manner depending on where we are working them. I am not saying a good wildfowling dog can't also be used as a peg dog but i wouldn't expect it to be as good as a proper peg dog.

I think dogs that are used mainly on the marsh have to be able to work more off of there own instincts as like you have said most of the time we know the general direction of the bird but haven't been able to mark it, we expect the dog to find it though. Sometimes it is the dog that knows a bird is down and will retrieve a bird that would otherwise not have been looked for.

[Reabrook]

I think the difference is slightly less than most people would like to admit to. I'd expect any of my dogs to make as good a peg dog as it would a fowling dog. I agree with most of what Is written above but there is no reason why a dog can't work on it's own initiative and instinct and still be under control with the right training. I also accept that we often can't see them in the dark to give hand signals etc but what about in daylight? Surely there is something to be said for a dog which can be sent directly to the fall, handled if slightly off the mark and back into the hide before the next bunch of duck arrive on that hypothetical red letter tide flight.

It's a real horses for courses type question and one which many people won't agree on but at the end of the day if your dog does what you want it to do and you are happy with it then for me that's good enough.

My main gripe is that I still in this day and age encounter people with wild bordering on manic dogs whose excuse is that " it's a Fowling dog" and because of that fact it's ok for it to run amok and ruin the day. Far better to educate people to attain a better standard of training because I'm sure some of them I see cannot enjoy having the dogs themselves.

 

Sorry edited to say I was generalising and not making allegations as to the behaviour of Kent or SP3's dogs.

Edited August 13, 2012 by Reabrook

[silver pigeon 3]

My main gripe is that I still in this day and age encounter people with wild bordering on manic dogs whose excuse is that " it's a Fowling dog" and because of that fact it's ok for it to run amok and ruin the day. Far better to educate people to attain a better standard of training because I'm sure some of them I see cannot enjoy having the dogs themselves.

 

 

Completely agree, no excuse to have a dog that is completely out of control. My Lab is my first working dog and i am pleased with how he is coming on, yes if and when i do it all again i will do some of it differently but he is at a point where i can trust that most of what i instruct him to do, be it with voice commands or hand signals he will do. He also will hunt on his own with no input from me when it is needed, this is something that is in him and for a fowling dog i think this is very important. Saying that i wouldn't want to take him to a posh fully driven day as all the world can then see what flaws you or the dog have , i think i will keep him with me on the beating line!

Edited August 13, 2012 by silver pigeon 3

[-Mongrel-]

I'm with SP3 on this one.

 

My chocccie lab handles well, certainly not to show standard but as I started with a 5 year old pet dog, some things are deeply ingrained. On the marsh she hunts well but I am sure that she will lose one or two this season BECAUSE she doesn't run in to the fall or doesn't mark it properly in the dark. In daylight I could handle her in, of that I'm confident.

 

It's not something I'm happy about, nobody wants to leave a bird on the marsh, and hopefully she'll surprise me, but, as I would also like to use her for picking up it's the price I pay for steadiness. Once again, when I train the next one (from a puppy), there are several things I'd do differently and probably achieve a better result, but I've got what I've got.