Applying for a patent?? How?!

[krugerandsmith]

No idea but a cable is a cable........just need to match the spec and connectors.

 

Back to patents google have an archive, which is quite good. As I said the welsh govt innovation support offer support and advice

 

HDAV.

Absolutely correct ...... contacted cable makers ....no problem making the cable .......just the connectors big problem ...So if anyone out there would like to make a fortune here is one way.

[Alanl50]

NDAs aren't worth the paper they are printed on.

 

Don't tell anyone and just get yourself to a patent attorney but expect to spend some money.

 

As has been said, you will be surprised as to what has already been patented

 

In the region of £5000 (just under) is what I was quoted by a Law firm specialising in patents it was easier to use them than trawl through the very confusing paperwork.

Alan

 

NB

I would add: DO NOT TELL ANYONE, I really made that mistake.

Edited December 30, 2012 by Alanl50

[Mungler]

Alan, I said I was always right

[Alanl50]

Alan, I said I was always right

 

Mungler you most certainly were,

In hindsight I should have sought legal advice the the beginning not after I discovered I had been robbed!!!!!!.

It was my idea, I paid all the materials costs, tooling, I even had a workshop built to manufacture the product, 2 year of testing, and it was the last person you would have thought to do the dirty on you!!!!

I even found out by accident when earlier this year I had a shoulder operation, My wife was driving me round I was handing out business cards for a good friend who has a business near Royston, but his expansion has led him to Suffolk and Norfolk, in to this dealer I go, I gives him the talk we digressed our conversation he then directs me to and points at my invention!!!!

Its not the end as I had not finished the development, I have now and can market the product a lot cheaper and and 100% profit.

Wake up call, dont trust anyone and anything you invent get it drawn up properly, register your intent with the proper people

Edited December 30, 2012 by Alanl50

[HDAV]

 

 

HDAV.

Absolutely correct ...... contacted cable makers ....no problem making the cable .......just the connectors big problem ...So if anyone out there would like to make a fortune here is one way.

They won't be unique (incredibly unlikely) just need to know where to look..... Got a photo?

 

Alan what did you invent? Unless you can go 100% solo or into a big firm under a watertight agreement there will be a queue of people willing to rip you off!

Edited December 30, 2012 by HDAV

[Drayman]

Sounds like a circular argument. "NDA's aren't worth the paper they are printed on" ... "get yourself to a patent attorney... " who will tell you not to disclose an idea until you have an NDA in place NDA's are absolutely worth having, as long as they are properly written as they generally lack specificity. You would be surprised how many poor NDA's come from law firms and international company lawyers. BUT, if someone breaks the NDA then it's up to you to sue them which, in itself, isn't much fun.

 

Alan l50 - did the law firm not advise you on protection, including retrospectively? It's probably not worth the effort but you could probably go back and get compensation from your "friend".

 

It's only going to take an hour or so on the net to see if WelshLamb has something with potential or if it has obviously been done before (or something close) - it only requires key word searching. I've never really seen the point in asking an expensive law firm to put the same words in to Google and charge me for the pleasure. If she keeps a record of her key word searches it should also reduce the bill with the law firm

[WelshLamb]

Initial searches on google are showing that the idea I'm thinking of is not yet available.

 

I've done some rough sketches of the design (although I am no artist ) and am going to go to the patent office tomorrow

[Alanl50]

They won't be unique (incredibly unlikely) just need to know where to look..... Got a photo?

 

Alan what did you invent? Unless you can go 100% solo or into a big firm under a watertight agreement there will be a queue of people willing to rip you off!

It was blind stupidity and me trusting someone I shouldnt, its quite complicated, a year in to the project and another true friend advised me not to trust this person, and gave me details of other events relating to the person in question.a year in and its really too late (Solicitors Patent office advice)

when I found out what had happened I never said a word to anyone for 2 weeks or more, then my friend who knew something was up asked me what was up I told, he was as upset as I was, my friend simply said Im so sorry you had to find out the hard way

 

It will be 100% solo the sad fact is what ever you make there will always be someone in the queue waiting to jump on your bandwagon.

where I win is that I will solely make it and market it so my cost are small and I can change the product without cost. My life has been manufacturing so its easier for me than some one with out my skills

[Mungler]

Sounds like a circular argument. "NDA's aren't worth the paper they are printed on" ... "get yourself to a patent attorney... " who will tell you not to disclose an idea until you have an NDA in place NDA's are absolutely worth having, as long as they are properly written as they generally lack specificity. You would be surprised how many poor NDA's come from law firms and international company lawyers. BUT, if someone breaks the NDA then it's up to you to sue them which, in itself, isn't much fun.

 

Alan l50 - did the law firm not advise you on protection, including retrospectively? It's probably not worth the effort but you could probably go back and get compensation from your "friend".

 

It's only going to take an hour or so on the net to see if WelshLamb has something with potential or if it has obviously been done before (or something close) - it only requires key word searching. I've never really seen the point in asking an expensive law firm to put the same words in to Google and charge me for the pleasure. If she keeps a record of her key word searches it should also reduce the bill with the law firm

Nope. NDA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I sign an NDA, you tell me a secret and I tell someone you don't know.... how do you prove I told them anything? (I'm not as daft as to leave any paper trail - no emails, no letters and no phone calls). And voilla, your secret is out and in the wide world and you can't stop it. Alternatively your secret idea is worth £10,000,000 to you and I blab it - but I'm only worth say £50,000. You want to sue me? As I said, NDAs are worthless and anyone who says otherwise is plain naive

[kimh]

the first thing to do is write down your idea precisely, with drawings as though your were presenting it. then post those documents to yourself? on receipt of them do not open them, keep them safe? all you have done is date stamped your idea. this maybe crucial when it comes to the 'well sir our company is already looking into a similar idea' conversation across the table.

Intellectual property is what we are talking about here

what you have to identify is, can it be copied, as once it's in china it's tuff titty

if it can't because of either one reason or another, keep it a secret. heinz is the best and many have tried to copy but can't exactly because the ingredients are only known by 5 people

if it's plug item a into item b which are both bought from maplins don't bother

once you register the patent as pending you have told the world how to do it... sorry copy it

Baylis has a good web site to help, that Trevor who has a few horror stories to tell

but the basic is... you have got to put your money where your mouth is

you have either got to make it and prove it on the grounds of 'I was first' so others pay you a licence but to do that a Intellectual patent lawyer will want £35,000 over five years?

 

Good luck... this time next year Rodney...

P.S. who or what told you it was a good idea?

[Drayman]

Nope. NDA's are not worth the paper they are printed on. I sign an NDA, you tell me a secret and I tell someone you don't know.... how do you prove I told them anything? (I'm not as daft as to leave any paper trail - no emails, no letters and no phone calls). And voilla, your secret is out and in the wide world and you can't stop it. Alternatively your secret idea is worth £10,000,000 to you and I blab it - but I'm only worth say £50,000. You want to sue me? As I said, NDAs are worthless and anyone who says otherwise is plain naive

 

Both fair points but if you are dealing with a crook life is always going to be tough. It also means that there is a chance that at some point you may have to perjure yourself. If you are happy to go that far then there isn't much to be done. Whoever you share the idea with is just as likely to shop you too when things go wrong! No such thing as honour among thieves. That's why good NDA's don't only cover the area but also cover consequences.

Good NDA's with companies or individuals work. I know as I've been involved over the years enforcing some (and winning) and regularly specifying details within them. But I agree, life gets tough when you deal with crooks. If NDA's didn't work then there would be very little innovation or invention as most individuals and companies of all sizes need help at some point.

It then becomes a question of how deep are each party's pockets. If you are only worth 50,000 (at the moment) and I can afford it then yes I'll sue for current and future lost revenue, in fact everything you have now and as much as possible from your future - been there, done that in corporate land - even if it doesn't get all the money back . That's why even individual and small business NDA's should have an insurance clause that normally exceeds £1mm. If you can't cover yourself with insurance for breach of an NDA then you won't be signing one with me.

Even patents don't fully protect you unless you have the pockets to defend them.

But you are right, there is a way around just about everything if you want to find it but, what you are saying is why bother going to an attorney, the patent office, design registration etc. so still a circular argument. At some point you'll have to share.

[Mungler]

In the initial stages you share only with your professional advisor (patent attorney) and then the patent office (when filing).

 

After that it doesn't matter know knows (because its then published and in the system).

 

If you tell anyone else outside of this small loop then you're mad and asking for trouble.

 

Once registered you can license / sell it / finance against it and so enforcement becomes as easy as good as the idea is.

 

China is the biggest problem - you get copied over there, well there's very little you can do about it - end of.

 

Incidentally, the reference to dealing with 'crooks' is also incredibly naive - every litigation file in every solicitors office and every file in every Court suggests that there are people who lie, cheat, bend the rules and are less than straightforward and in every arena and every sector and every walk of life. The more money at stake, the greater the risk.

 

If you narrow dealing with only people you trust or who are saint like then a. You won't be doing much business or b. you may end up shafted by a saint.

 

Trust no one and don't put yourself unnecessarily in harms way.

 

 

Edited December 30, 2012 by Mungler

[Diceman]

Just an aside but a fascinating story of the most remarkable, potentially world changing material that the inventor never patented because that would give the recipe to the world at large...and as a result he never made a penny from it. Have been watching this for years waiting for something to happen but it never has (as far as I am aware) and Maurice died last year so maybe it never will.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/technology/5158972/Starlite-the-nuclear-blast-defying-plastic-that-could-change-the-world.html

[lambhat]

In the initial stages you share only with your professional advisor (patent attorney) and then the patent office (when filing).

 

After that it doesn't matter know knows (because its then published and in the system).

 

If you tell anyone else outside of this small loop then you're mad and asking for trouble.

 

Once registered you can license / sell it / finance against it and so enforcement becomes as easy as good as the idea is.

 

China is the biggest problem - you get copied over there, well there's very little you can do about it - end of.

 

Incidentally, the reference to dealing with 'crooks' is also incredibly naive - every litigation file in every solicitors office and every file in every Court suggests that there are people who lie, cheat, bend the rules and are less than straightforward and in every arena and every sector and every walk of life. The more money at stake, the greater the risk.

 

If you narrow dealing with only people you trust or who are saint like then a. You won't be doing much business or b. you may end up shafted by a saint.

 

Trust no one and don't put yourself unnecessarily in harms way.

 

Spot on. And on the pointlessness of NDAs.

 

The OP really does need to get some professional advice from a Patent Attorney. Do not bother with the Patent Office: that is like going to the Inland Revenue for advice on how to save tax, when you should be speaking to an accountant.

 

Cost-wise, whoever estimated around 6-30k is about right, assuming the 6k is just for the UK and spread over around 4 years and the 30k is for a reasonable number of other countries in addition. But in the first year you should get away with a lot less than that, and during that time (after you've filed a patent application) you can see if anyone is interested in the idea. If they are then you should hopefully be able to get some cash to cover the later costs.