28 gauge fibre wad load data with American powders

[CheeseHam]

Hi.

I've just started home loading for my 28 and am loving it. 

It seems like a bad time to start, as Maxam powders seem to be non existent at the moment, but I've managed to get some Hodgdon Lil Gun and Universal powder. I bought some load data from Ballistic Products, and some cork wads from clay game, and have loaded and dropped a good few pigeons and clays with them. All the data is for plastic wads, it seems the Americans are allergic to fibre, so I'm kind of 'suck it and see', which you are not suppose to do.

I've loaded 25 grain lil gun, 25 gram (7/8) 5 shot, cheddite cx1000 primers, 18mm cork wad. These pattern very well, and drop pigeons at a hell of a range. I patterned 28 gram and 23 gram, and found 25 was the best. (my go to cartridge before loading was Eley 24g 5's)

And 15 grain Universal, 23 gram (13/16), 7 shot, cheddite cx1000, 18mm cork wad plus 3mm spacer. These pattern horribly, but broke clays well enough, wouldn't want to use them for game. They did damage a lot of the hulls. I want to load 25 grams so I wont need any filler, but can't find any data. (the Americans love 3/4 (21grams), which probably patterns well with plastic wads)

The load data I'm using is just the plastic wad data, so I'm confident I'm not over pressuring, but it would be nice to get it perfect.

Does anyone have any fibre data?

And does anyone send there loads away for testing? Where is a good place to get it done?

Thanks

[harkom]

Be wary of BPI data. And if you are trying to extrapolate data from their "data" - Do Not.

[Stonepark]

17 hours ago, CheeseHam said:

Hi.

I've just started home loading for my 28 and am loving it. 

It seems like a bad time to start, as Maxam powders seem to be non existent at the moment, but I've managed to get some Hodgdon Lil Gun and Universal powder. I bought some load data from Ballistic Products, and some cork wads from clay game, and have loaded and dropped a good few pigeons and clays with them. All the data is for plastic wads, it seems the Americans are allergic to fibre, so I'm kind of 'suck it and see', which you are not suppose to do.

I've loaded 25 grain lil gun, 25 gram (7/8) 5 shot, cheddite cx1000 primers, 18mm cork wad. These pattern very well, and drop pigeons at a hell of a range. I patterned 28 gram and 23 gram, and found 25 was the best. (my go to cartridge before loading was Eley 24g 5's)

And 15 grain Universal, 23 gram (13/16), 7 shot, cheddite cx1000, 18mm cork wad plus 3mm spacer. These pattern horribly, but broke clays well enough, wouldn't want to use them for game. They did damage a lot of the hulls. I want to load 25 grams so I wont need any filler, but can't find any data. (the Americans love 3/4 (21grams), which probably patterns well with plastic wads)

The load data I'm using is just the plastic wad data, so I'm confident I'm not over pressuring, but it would be nice to get it perfect.

Does anyone have any fibre data?

And does anyone send there loads away for testing? Where is a good place to get it done?

Thanks

According to the loads above...

your lilgun 25gr, 25g load is running 9000psi to 10,000psi in plastic wads and seems from your notes above running fine as fibre.

Your universal 15gr, 23g load according to data should run 12,000 to 12,500psi with plastic and is at the top of the range (arguably beyond CIP limit of 12,038psi) but fine under SAAMI(12,500psi), hence poor patterns and damaged shell casings.

NB - Fibre does not always reduce pressures.

I would back off at least 1gr if not 2gr of powder on universal loading, and I suspect it will improve the pattern and reduce the shell damage.

Universal will not work with 25g as it is too fast!

For 28g as far as I am aware, Birmingham Proof House is the only place to get them done.

[CheeseHam]

6 hours ago, Stonepark said:

According to the loads above...

your lilgun 25gr, 25g load is running 9000psi to 10,000psi in plastic wads and seems from your notes above running fine as fibre.

Your universal 15gr, 23g load according to data should run 12,000 to 12,500psi with plastic and is at the top of the range (arguably beyond CIP limit of 12,038psi) but fine under SAAMI(12,500psi), hence poor patterns and damaged shell casings.

NB - Fibre does not always reduce pressures.

I would back off at least 1gr if not 2gr of powder on universal loading, and I suspect it will improve the pattern and reduce the shell damage.

Universal will not work with 25g as it is too fast!

For 28g as far as I am aware, Birmingham Proof House is the only place to get them done.

Thanks. Good advice. Will definitely try 13 grain Universal and see if patterns improve.

Interesting you say about fibre not always reducing pressure. On the American forums, they universally say fibres leak pressure by about 10%, but with the waxed corks I'm using, they fit very snug in the case, and I cant see them being any worse than plastic. I want to get some tested to see where I stand. Have emailed Brum proof house, but no reply yet...

[CheeseHam]

So, just got some load data back from Birmingham Proof House. Everything passed. Made some good loads, and some poor ones.

Could do with some help interpreting the info.

I know the max average pressure is 830 bar, but I also know that this isn't a target. What is a good pressure to aim for?

Velocity. Again, what should I be aiming for for a nice pigeon/game load? (the data is taken at 2.5m, so using shop bought cartridge info is no use, as they use muzzle velocity, which is always higher).

How important is momentum?

Obviously, the Std Dev should be as low as possible, but how high is too high?

And the bottom figure, Pn+(K2n x Sn)<=1.15 Ptmax, is this the most important?

Thanks