Laser Range Finders

[ochre]

Just ordered a cheap laser sight to sit on my scope and act as a range finder. Any advice on set up and practical use would be a help. I'm after advice on how to estimate distance once laser has been set to required distance: 30m or so. Thanks, in advance.

[1 of 5]

Using a Laser with an Airgun

 

Much has been written about lasers, a lot of it by folk who've not persevered enough with the system to fully understand it. I hope that this review will clarify some of the murky areas.

 

Laser type

You need a laser that has a good bright dot. To achieve brightness that means a tight dot at distance. The poorer lasers have a beam that diverges at distance and thus the available light is diffused over a larger area. As ALL lasers are limited by international agreements in terms of the power output you are not looking for a more powerful unit but a better-made unit. As well as of a good bright small dot you want a unit that is easy to mount (more of which later) and easy to aim in the required direction. Ignoring the cheap Asian units (these are simply awful with dot sizes of 2 inches or so at 10 yards) there are three main players in the airgun laser department:-

 

Crosman

Claim to be the world’s most powerful etc etc... As I said they are all the same power. The Crosman unit is one of the worst for dot size so leave them alone.

 

Beamshot

Make a range of different models and prices. They are similar looking to the Crosman but much better in terms of dot size. As a rule, the more you pay the better they are. Like the Crosman unit they have a simply awful zeroing system so unless you enjoy hours of frustration attempting to zero the thing you'd do well to leave these too. If money is tight then the basic Beamshot will do but be prepared for the zeroing problems and bright sunlight will prevent you seeing the dot!

 

Corsak

By far the best of the bunch for both dot size / brightness and a zeroing system that makes the other two obsolete. There are two types of zeroing systems on offer from Corsak and both are easy to use when compared with the competition. This unit has a dovetail for mounting. These are available at £68 from Soviet Bazaar and are far and away the best bet unless you've got £500 for a green laser! (I'll ignore the mega expensive units for this review.)

 

Where to mount it

Now the bad news. There are no commercially available mounts that I consider to be worth a monkeys! Why? Well to be of most use to an airgunner the laser should ideally be mounted at least 4 inches above the scope. There are differences of opinion here as to what's the best height but the experts’ opinions all fall somewhere between 4 and 7 inches. See my home brewed mount as to how to construct one. A pair of high mounts and some M10 threaded bar are all you need.

 

 

 

Why so high? If you get one of the pellet trajectory programs such as Ian Pellant’s Airgun 7.5 or Chairgun (they are free to download so you have no excuse) you will see that by putting the laser up high and with careful choosing of the zero for the laser (not necessarily the zero of the scope) you can create an additional tangent to the pellet’s flight-path. In other words as your pellet falls away from your crosshairs beyond your chosen zero the laser can pick up the flight-path for another 20 yards or so (dependant upon many factors) giving you an aim-point accurate to half an inch or less if required out beyond 55 yards in .177 or approx 45 yards in .22 at 12 ft/lbs. It is useful to have a multi-aim-point reticle so you can dab the laser on the target to see where the dot intersects the reticle, then use that part of the reticle to aim at the target. A zoom scope is useful too. At some point the pellet is going to arc away from the laser beam (around 58 yards for my set-up) so I set the scope magnification so that the laser coincides with a certain point on the reticle at 55 yds - this then tells me when I am out of range as the laser will appear below this mark to indicate this.

 

If you want to mount your laser elsewhere (under the barrel for instance) you need to create the maximum distance from the scope centreline to the laser centreline as with a laser below the scope you are going to use the laser as a rangefinder rather than an aim-point. This is because with a laser lower than the scope the dot is going to appear above the crosshairs at distances above the zero. You should zero the laser at the scopes zero and then spend time on the range working out what the different divergences of crosshair-to-laser mean in terms of pellet drop to work out your holdovers. As you can see this system is of less use but does have the advantage that the combo will still fit in your gun bag. A larger version may be needed for the high laser.

 

Anywhere offset to the side of the vertical from the crosshairs is a compromise and should really be avoided if at all possible.

 

When you have got your laser set up as you want it you'll find that it's every bit as accurate as a big mag. FT scope for telling you the distance to your target but is MUCH faster and cheaper than that system. I can range-find and aim at any target within 8-58 yards in the time it takes just to aim. This is invaluable out in the field whilst hunting rabbits. A rabbit will happily sit there and have a laser pointed at it without running whereas birds will usually fly off at the first sight of the dot so you have to range-find quickly behind them. I can honestly say that the high laser has NEVER been a problem in the field for me in terms of catching the unit.

 

I think this covers most aspects of laser use for those likely to be interested enough to have got this far. There are other ways such as high scope / low laser for a bullpup or laser on top of barrel for ratting but what's written will cover the majority of users. So to summarise, get a Corsak, download a trajectory program and spend a few minutes playing around with different heights of laser and different zero ranges then make yourself a mount and hit what you aim at more often.

[ochre]

Nice one '1 of 5'; I am tempted to raise the laser up as you suggest but know that it won't fit in my bag and because of that I'm unlikely to go with it. If sit the laser on the top of the scope and zero it to 30 yards - would I know by the difference to scope zero as to whether target was nearer or further away? That was my plan.

 

Being a bit of a dunce, I don't fully understand how I could extend the range out to 45 yards with my .22 Could you explain in dunce language?

 

The Dunce

[1 of 5]

Sitting a laser close to the scope centreline will negate most of the point of a laser. You need the laser as far away from the scope as possible to give the biggest divergence of laser/scope. You'll be able to tell if on zero or nearer/further but that'll be about all. Another idea would be to mount it under the silencer. Some silencers are 30mm and will therefore accept a 30mm scope mount on which to hang a laser. This gives a decent gap between the laser and scope for rangefinding but because the laser is below the scope the dot will appear above the crosshairs at distances above your zero so can't be used as an aimpoint but just a rangefinder. Download Chairgun and plat with it to best see what can be achieved.

http://www.fotosoft.co.uk/chairgun/index.html

 

To more specifically answer your question. I used a 30 yd zero on a S16 and a laser at 6.75inch above the scope. The gun ran on accupells and the pellet never left either the scope centreline or (moving downrange) the laser by more than 0.5 inch out to 45 yds.

[ochre]

It's the last part that I don't understand. Why would the pellet not drift by more than 0.5 inch between laser and cross hairs?

[1 of 5]

From 9 to 35 yds the pellet is always within 0.5 inch of the scopes crosshairs, above at some distances and below at other distances (on my particular set-up). From 26 to 45 yds the pellet would always land within a half inch of the lasers dot as the laser creates a tangent to the pellets arc as it falls away from the crosshairs due to the height of the laser (see the trajectory graph above). This gave me an aimpoint out to 45 yds that I knew would be accurate to 0.5 inch. Simple to show you if you were looking through my gun but hard to explain using the constaraints of language. Chairgun will paint a better picture than words.

[ochre]

1 of 5 - firstly, thanks for the very detailed and useful help. I think I now understand. What's quite funny is that my cheap (Asian) laser sight arrived in the post this morning and was a piece of **** just as you said it would be - how ironic! I checked out Soviet Bazaar and couldn't find anything with the name Corsack on it but they do have 2-3 adjustable laser sights within the price range u suggested (£68-100).

 

2 questions - 1. How do you get a bag to fit ur rifle with an antenna on the top? 2. How do u get the M10 bar to connect to the mount?

 

I really like the idea of ur set up - it should make a big difference to my range finding abilities - especially at night. I take it you zero the laser to 45 yards for max. range on a .22?

 

Thanks again for all ur help.

[1 of 5]

http://www.sovietbazaar.co.uk/laser_sight_...t_hth-210ap.htm

This is the laser to go for. It's a Corsak unit thats just been renamed. If you use NV such as the new XVD units it'll wind down in power to use with that too.

 

1. I have a JSR GDF bag which has two zips (one from each end) and the laser pokes out at the top in the middle.

2. The mount at the top has the scope part cut off just leaving the body and dovetail and both mounts are then drilled and tapped to take the M10

 

The laser is usually zeroed to the scope crosshairs just infront of the scope zero. If scope is zeroed at 30 yds then the laser should be zeroed to the crosshairs at around 31-32. This way the laser line will follow the arc of the pellet for 10-15 yds before the pellet eventually arcs away from the laser.

[ochre]

Have ordered sight you suggested and mounts. How did you construct upper mount attachment and how did you get the mounts tapped to receive the M10 bar? Problems I will need to oversome! Thanks again 1 of 5.

[1 of 5]

How did you construct upper mount attachment and how did you get the mounts tapped to receive the M10 bar?

As per pont 2 in my last post. You'll need a M10 tap to thread the hole you need to drill. Not sure what more I can add to that to describe it.

[ochre]

Is tapping difficult?? Any advice...

[sharp_shooter]

Try mounting the laser beneath you silencer(if you have one that is). That way you are increasing the distance between laser and scope without making it awkward to manage. Plus if you have a silencer which can just screw on and off then it is easy for you to fit it into a a gunabag.

HTH

Regards

S_S

[ochre]

Do you find you can range find with the laser mounted here? How effective is it as a system?

[sharp_shooter]

On 10X zoom i can tell the difference between 30 and 32 yards, if i got up to about 14 then i can tell the difference between 30 and 31 yards.

[1 of 5]

Below the silencer is a good place and offers accurate rangefinding - what it does not offer is an aimpoint solution that the high laser offers which is point the dot at the target (if beyond your zero) and fire.

[pigeon master]

Guys I really don’t understand why all this is required, your not shooting a high powered rifle that would require range finding if you were shooting at targets between 300-1100 metres, your talking about 20 to 45 metres.

 

Why waste your money when simple range finding techniques can be used.

 

1-5 you seem to be very clued up and have researched your theory obviously, but come on guys, practise hitting the spot at 15, 25,35,45 yards and away you go, dead quarry every time.

 

I understand its a different aspect and fun to look at other techniques for range finding but practice the mind and I guarantee its more effective than a silly laser sticking out the side of your rifle.

 

The PM

[1 of 5]

practise hitting the spot at 15, 25,35,45 yards and away you go, dead quarry every time.

Alas that it was so simple.

Having shot in this years HFT series I've watched many of the country's best shots shooting 8-45 yds in .177 with bracketing to help rangefind taking all the time in the world to get comfy still miss more than an odd target out of 30 (myself included). True, not all misses are down to rangefinding errors but then again it's so much more important to be accurate with your rangefinding in .22 which the original poster is using. Also rangefinding at night is a swine whether using a lamp or NV. I honestly defy anyone to rangefind to the same accuracy at night that they can in the day. Whether using a lamp or sticking one of the Soviet Bazaar XVD units at the back of your scope the laser gives sufficient accuracy for rangefinding not to be an issue.

[ochre]

1 of 5 - mounts came through this morning, just waiting for laser. Am really looking forward to practising with a system that is equally good in night and day applications. How easy/expensive is tapping? Thanks in advance - I've really appreciated the time and detail in your posts.

[Jon-Boy]

Now ordering myself a lazer unit after the tips you have posted, cheers 1 of 5

[Jon-Boy]

i range find by using the paralax of my scope. You set it to max zoom then walk out to 30 yards focus the sight so its perfect and then mark your elevation turret with 30. do this for all the other shooting distances marking them on your turret. Some shooting distances are the same, cant remember the exact numbers but im sure 30 yards uses the same elevation setting as 15 yards, correct me if im wrong. Depends on the trajectory of your rifle.

 

sorry this is only helpful when you are good at range finding with your eye, you simply guess the distance, set your turret to the distance then put the cross hair bang on target. crack!

 

 

Its just useful if you dont want to guess where to put the cross hair.

range guessing is a peice of pi£s at 0 to 40 yards

[Devilishdave]

You cant beat a bit of

 

Light

Amplification by

Stimulated

Emition of

Radiation

 

Dave

[1 of 5]

How easy/expensive is tapping?

As easy as drilling the correct sized hole for the tap (bench drill is adviseable rather than a black and decker) and twisting a thread cutter in by hand (a fair bit of manual effort). Costs nothing if you have the drill and tap. Probably buy both for tenner or so at a decent ironmongers or a couple of pints for your local "home engineer type person" if one's availiable.

[1 of 5]

Rangefinding by parralax correction can be accurate out to a couple of yards to 60 yds or so with a BIG mag scope (50x magnification). I've used one myself when sniping from a position that'll give me all the time in the world to do so. The system isn't ideal for the majority of hunting situations due to the amount of scope fiddling required and the type of scope required for the job. A typical hunting scope requires a large depth of field whereas to rangefind by parralax requires a shallow one.

[Devilishdave]

When tapping first of all make sur you start the tap square to the work then ensure you turn 1/2 a turn in then 1/4 turn back to clear the swarf do this the whole way ensuring you use lubricant the whole time.

 

This will give you a nice square, smooth thread

 

Dave