Fouling problems & mystery parts

[should'vebeenacowboy]

I just bought a Remington 11-87 12ga second-hand a few days ago. It was in pretty appalling condition having clearly never been cleaned or serviced. One thing that surprised me was the amount of fouling INSIDE the wooden forend. Correct me if i'm wrong, but I wouldn't imagine that there should be any firing gases in contact with a wooden component. If possible, I'd quite like to stop this fouling from happening.

 

The second part of this topic relates to pat 45a in the owner's manual - something called a "gas cylinder collar". Having spoken to someone considered to be an afficionado on Remington semi-autos, I found that neither of us had even the faintest idea what it was for. It also seems odd that there would be a gas cylinder collar (and in fact piston and piston seal) in a gun that does not appear to have a gas cylinder.

 

Finally, is the 11-87 a gas or blowback operated gun?

 

Any help you can give would be hot here, guys.

 

Iain

[Imperfection]

Although i dont have a Remington and have an Escort instead-i get fouling on the inside of my forend and logic would say yours is gas operated like mine.When i strip clean it,i just give it a good wipe with a cloth to get rid of all the crud.I do find though that different make cartridges get it dirtier than others.

 

No idea on the photo though!

[dave1419]

hello, this part is called a gas cylinder collar,you can see this part if you google remington 1187 manuals and it shows you the gun in detail.as for the gun being sold to you in this condition,can i ask did you not check the condition before you bought it,hope it was'nt a mate of yours.i would spend a bit of time giving it a good clean, and try and keep it spotless.remmies have to be spotless for them to work properly. hope this advice helps.------dave ps its gas operated.

[neil smith]

Fouling in the handguard is perfectly normal on the 1100/1187 its a gas operated shotgun, small holes in the barrel bleed of gas from the shot which enters the chamber attached to the barrel, pressure builds up in there above the gas ring seals and pushes the whole action bar & bolt assembly rearwards, once the rings move back far enough the gas simply vents off inside the handguard making it dirty inside, get used to cleaning it as you will always need to do it while you own the gun.

 

the part you have shown fits over the mag tube after the barrel has been put back on but before you refit the forend.

 

Benelli's are a inertia blowback system so do not have any gas holes in the barrel & no gas pistons or seals so all the grud created by the fired cartridge goes out of the barrel keeping the gun cleaner for far longer & never gets dirt inside the handguard & are a doddle to clean.

 

N

[should'vebeenacowboy]

On my previous inspections I had not noticed the holes in the barrell for bleeding off the gas to cycle the action, but I have now noticed them. Is it usual to make a gas cylinder out of wood? Would not a metal sleeve not function more efficiently and allow a better seal? Also, the forend has a crack in it that has been repaired, could this affect the cycling of the action? It will occasionally not extract the spent cartridge before loading another, causing a jam.

[henry d]

On my previous inspections I had not noticed the holes in the barrell for bleeding off the gas to cycle the action, but I have now noticed them. Is it usual to make a gas cylinder out of wood?Yes, and also to make them of plastic too, like mine. Would not a metal sleeve not function more efficiently and allow a better seal? No as it will make it far too heavyAlso, the forend has a crack in it that has been repaired, could this affect the cycling of the action?Unlikely unless you have signs of gas escaping through the crack It will occasionally not extract the spent cartridge before loading another, causing a jam.Sounds more like the gas ports(holes) need cleaning out, IIRC the wire size is 1/8" but best to check your manual. The first check I would do is a good clean and lube as sometimes the action slows if it has had a lot of use and not been cleaned.

[buchangun]

a small amount off maintenance on a Rem auto will keep them running for years.

The gas cylinder collar is the washer type thing with bevelled edges that slides up and down the magazine tube under the fore end - this should slide up and down freely - give it a clean and lightly oil the magazine tube - this will get dirty from shot gases and will need a wipe with an oily cloth after each days shooting .

In front of the gas collar should be a rubber O ring ( between the collar and the muzzle end of the tube) - this makes the seal between the barrel porte and the collar , it is worth changing this as they cost buttons and make a massive difference to the cycling of the gun ( check on eBay there are usually loads for sale) .

If you haven't all ready you will need to take the barrel off and clean the ports - cock the gun to put the working parts to the rear of the gun , remove the fore end and then pull the barrel to remove - it may be stiff if it has not been removed for a while but it will come off. I clean the gas ports with a cocktail stick ( they are the small holes inside the collar that is welded to the barrel that goes over the magazine tube.

 

Hope this helps

 

just seen the picture - this looks like the collar that is attached to the barrel on my 1100 that covers the gas ports.

This is a blow back gun that works from gas from firing to recock the working parts - there is no external gas or additional gas top recock

Edited December 27, 2008 by buchangun

[neil smith]

Is it usual to make a gas cylinder out of wood? Would not a metal sleeve not function more efficiently and allow a better seal?

 

Also, the forend has a crack in it that has been repaired, could this affect the cycling of the action?

 

It will occasionally not extract the spent cartridge before loading another, causing a jam.

 

The wooden handguard is not a gas cylinder & does not bear any pressure, the gun works from gas pressure within the small chamber welded on below the barrel where the two small holes enter from the barrel, the piston rings empart enough energy within that short distance to accelerate the action bars enough that they continue fully rearwards opening the bolt. A poor gas seal or broken or missing gas rings will reduce there efficiency & cause problems, always ensure that the gas rings are in good condition & are fitted correctly if your gun has the old two part rings then it is possible to fit them in the wrong order, later guns had the rings as a one piece unit & just the rubber "O" ring above that.

 

A crack in the forend will not effect the working of the gun, once the rings have moved out of the small chamber below the barrel on there rearward travel the unused gas is vented off inside the handguard as it is no longer needed, if you view the assembled gun from above you will notice two areas of the forend that are cut away from the barrel allowing the gas to vent off in the case of over pressure in the handguard.

 

There are many reasons why an 1100 may not cycle correctly, if the fired shell stays in the chamber then a worn or broken extractor claw or weak extractor spring may be to blame.

 

N

Edited December 28, 2008 by neil smith