gubby_uk Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Hi there. I am looking to renew my firearms ticket. I had a .22lr until about 5 years ago when I handed it in. I am going to redo my .22 but would like to add a .243 for fox and deer. What is the best way to word this. I have been told that the .22 will be no problem to redo and fox is no problem but the deer will require a sponsor. Any one in the New Forest fancy an apprentice? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 What are they looking for- do they mean they want somone to act as your mentor when you go stalking? If so for how long? David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubby_uk Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Sorry, I worded that badly. Yes, I need to find a mentor, 3 to 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skippy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) The law states that if you are over 17 (I believe) that you do not require supervision. This is one of the terms that the firearms departments are trying to add that certain trainers in the BDS actively want people to challenge. And in some respects you have to see where they are coming from if you are safe with a .22 why would you be any less safe with a .243? Good luck with the application! Edited January 28, 2009 by Skippy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shootingman Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 If you have land with deer on , it will be easier for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubby_uk Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 The law states that if you are over 17 (I believe) that you do not require supervision. This is one of the terms that the firearms departments are trying to add that certain trainers in the BDS actively want people to challenge. And in some respects you have to see where they are coming from if you are safe with a .22 why would you be any less safe with a .243? Good luck with the application! If you have land with deer on , it will be easier for you. That's a good point. I had a .22lr for years, and shot .270 with a mate for deer. Like you say, I am OK with a .22 but not .243? I have permission for a lovely little wood which I used to shoot 10 years ago. It is cleared up to .270. Guess I shall just put it in and see what they say. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There is no legal requirement for mentoring, and how do the police know if the mentor is any good or not?! Do they stipulate the mentor must have X years stalking experience? We must remember that a 243 can do much more dammage that a 22 at greater distance! Back to the main point though, can you present the police with evidence of your use of full bore rifles? The mentoring bit is partly there to satisfy the 'safe' requirement and if you can prove your safety in another way then I don't see they have a leg to stand on. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) so the old bill trust you to shoot a fox unsupervised, but you must have a mentor to shoot a deer. do deer require a different back stop. sounds like your FLD are concerned with things they should not be. Edited January 28, 2009 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 There is no legal requirement for mentoring, and how do the police know if the mentor is any good or not?! Do they stipulate the mentor must have X years stalking experience? We must remember that a 243 can do much more dammage that a 22 at greater distance! Back to the main point though, can you present the police with evidence of your use of full bore rifles? The mentoring bit is partly there to satisfy the 'safe' requirement and if you can prove your safety in another way then I don't see they have a leg to stand on. David David , This one is very interesting . A few weeks ago i was at my gun club when i was approached by another club member who i have known for a few years . He asked me if i would act as his mentor as he wanted to get into stalking . He told me that the local constabulary had givin him my name as a suitable mentor . I know nothing of this list of mentors but can only think that the constabularys do have a list of stalkers and those who they think are suitable and capable in their eyes to act as mentors . I have agreed to act as a mentor but as yet the club member has not applied for a .308 variation . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 David , This one is very interesting . A few weeks ago i was at my gun club when i was approached by another club member who i have known for a few years . He asked me if i would act as his mentor as he wanted to get into stalking . He told me that the local constabulary had givin him my name as a suitable mentor . I know nothing of this list of mentors but can only think that the constabularys do have a list of stalkers and those who they think are suitable and capable in their eyes to act as mentors . I have agreed to act as a mentor but as yet the club member has not applied for a .308 variation . Harnser . just out of interest Harnser, if you do take this chap under your wing for a few months. then pass on to the firearms department that you consider him to be safe to go it alone, than he does something wrong very wrong, would you get into any bother. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gubby_uk Posted January 28, 2009 Author Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Cheers guys. You've opened up a great can of worms. I better watch I don't get into an argument with my FAO. Reckon that will blow it all out of the water! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Mark , I dont know anything about the mentoring system at all . The club member did mention that when he is ready to start stalking and if i was prepared to mentor him we would both have to have a meeting with his flo ,to which i have agreed . I must admit i am a bit curious about this mentoring thing and would like to get to know what is exactly required of the mentor . Harnser . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 (edited) Thanks H. perhaps David could tell us a bit about why and what the firearms department want from mentors. As i see it (and i could be well wrong) if the new fac holder drops a clanger and has been granted his ticket buy the firearms department, then they would take some flak. so if the mentor signs him of as ok and a serious accident happens, will the mentor cop it. :wacko: David, please. Edited January 28, 2009 by markbivvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 I do not think you would have anything to worry about as a mentor in this context, provided that you had not told your charge to do somthing that was blatently daft- like use a hedge as back stop for example. I suggest all the police want to know is whether the chap has a basic understanding of safety - and some (many) would agrue that mentoring is a better option than being forced to take DSC level 1 for example - after all why shouldn't we help each other? Still need convincing? Say a 17 year old passes their driving test at 4pm on Friday, jumps in their car the next day and kills somone - is the driving test examiner or their instructor liable? No of course not. I do not know of any lists the FLO's keep for mentoring, however they may well have you down H as a stalker of many years - BUT I would have thought your firearms records were private & confidential - covered under the data protection Act, so I am a bit surprised that a FLO has given the detalis of a Sec 1 holder to a member of the general public.... Back to metoring, I will double check though whether the BASC insurance policy would cover the mentor IF there was any backlash - my initial thoughts are that there are no reasosn why it would not, if liability was proven. The other issue I too find absolutely daft- if you can shoot a fox with a 243 unsupervised at night etc ,but not a chuffing great deer in broad day light unless you are supervised! Hope that helps , but you know where I am if you need me. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CharlieT Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Not wishing to hijack the thread but I have helped out a small number of would be stalkers by acting as their mentor. Quite enjoyable actually as it's pleasing to see others getting into the sport and pass on a few tips. Never had a meeting with feo's or anyone, I have just written to their licensing manager recommending that the mentoring condition be removed when I considered them ready to go it alone. What I find strange though is why the police differentiate between fox and deer as far as mentoring is concerned. Dead is dead and if someone is a competent shot, I for the life of me can not see the difference between killing a deer or killing a fox. In fact a deer is a little easier as the "target" area is somewhat larger. This rather smacks of the police becoming involved in larder work and hygiene and also suggests that they consider shooting a deer is different to shooting any other quarry. David BASC, do you know why this is so. Perhaps the time has come for BASC to question this policy with the ACPO and to lobby them for a change of attitude. As I said if one is competent and trustworthy enough to use a c/f on fox one should be considered so for deer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted January 28, 2009 Report Share Posted January 28, 2009 Not wishing to hijack the thread but I have helped out a small number of would be stalkers by acting as their mentor. Quite enjoyable actually as it's pleasing to see others getting into the sport and pass on a few tips. Never had a meeting with feo's or anyone, I have just written to their licensing manager recommending that the mentoring condition be removed when I considered them ready to go it alone. What I find strange though is why the police differentiate between fox and deer as far as mentoring is concerned. Dead is dead and if someone is a competent shot, I for the life of me can not see the difference between killing a deer or killing a fox. In fact a deer is a little easier as the "target" area is somewhat larger. This rather smacks of the police becoming involved in larder work and hygiene and also suggests that they consider shooting a deer is different to shooting any other quarry. David BASC, do you know why this is so. Perhaps the time has come for BASC to question this policy with the ACPO and to lobby them for a change of attitude. As I said if one is competent and trustworthy enough to use a c/f on fox one should be considered so for deer. My point exactly Charlie, once the deer is dead it is of no concern to the FLD. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harnser Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 (edited) I have made a quick phone call and found out that the club member who wants me to act as his mentor has the same flo as i do . It appears that he was talking to his flo about getting into stalking and was told that he would need a metor who was known to the local firearms licencing dept . The flo gave him my name as we are both members of the same rifle club and told him to ask me if i would act as his mentor , as i would be suitable as far as the constabulary was concerned . I am a bit surprised that the constabulary would want this particular person to have a mentor as he is a very good county class full bore shooter and knows all about gun safety . But then he has only shot full bore rifles on approved ranges and not in open country side . Proberbly other police forces go about it in different ways . I just wonder if all police forces require a mentor for newbie stalkers . I agree ,why a mentor for deer and not for foxes . Gubby uk , Sorry if i have hi jacked your thread , but this is an interesting one . Harnser . Edited January 29, 2009 by Harnser Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
David BASC Posted January 29, 2009 Report Share Posted January 29, 2009 I will ask our firearms team what the score is about the fox / deer issue. David Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
markbivvy Posted May 15, 2009 Report Share Posted May 15, 2009 any info yet please David. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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