2spring Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 (edited) Calibre choice guide for Air Rifles – a personal opinion Although the personal skill/experience aspect of shooting is very important, there is information available from skilled people and manufacturers who have done proper tests both in the field and on the range. I don’t know the full answer and I am not an expert - but you don’t have to be to be able to read other peoples test results and opinions. Personal accuracy is absolutely essential if you are hunting. However, good technical information is also essential if you want to make the best personal choice of equipment. I have read a lot of published tests and anecdotal evidence on the internet. Getting to grips with ballistics was very difficult to start with, and I still find it very complicated. I have to say though, if you strip out legacy opinion and subjective opinion the picture to me does not now appear too confusing. Anyway here goes: 8 to 10ft/lb ultra low recoil for shorter range targets >> Go for .177 Reasons: A recoiling .177 rifle which has been well tuned and is running at between 8 and 10 ft/lb may well have a recoil reduced to the point where the gun gives excellent accuracy at ranges where its low power is not a disadvantage (Eg. Shorter range targets). It still will not compete effectively with a non-recoiling gun like a PCP but it will be more accurate against 12ft/lb springers at shorter range. 11.5ft/lb non-recoiling for targets: >> Go for .177 Reasons: Accuracy (flat trajectory). For non-recoiling rifles there is no contest in choice of calibre: .177 is the best trajectory at sub 12ft/lb. The trajectory of .177 is slightly better than .20 and much better than .22. at sub 12ft/lb. The trajectory of .25 at sub 12ft/lb is appalling. 11.5ft/lb non-recoiling for hunting: >> Go for .20 Reasons: 1) Down range energy. Combination of weight to frontal surface area factors gives .20 a peculiar advantage in energy retention (and in resistance to cross wind). 2) Trajectory. .20 is nearly as good as .177 and much better than .22. .25 is abysmal. 3) Destructive attributes. The increase in the destructive effect of .20 over .177 is much more than you would expect if you just compared the difference in calibre diameter. Because of its penetration advantage over .22 the destructive effect of .20 is claimed (presumably by in the field experience) to be better than .22. Unfortunately there appears to be a shortage of proper test results to prove this particular aspect. BASC are currently doing some “mass of destruction” tests for hunting with different types of shotgun pellets and hopefully they will one day spend some of our money on similar tests for air gun pellets. 11.5ft/lb with any level of recoil, for targets or hunting >> Go for .20. Reasons: 1) Accuracy: The piston in a recoiling .177 needs to give such a big thrust to get a .177 pellet to 12ft/lb that the significantly bigger recoil effects your aim to the point where you more than loose any advantage over .20 in terms of trajectory. However, this accuracy factor does not apply when you move from .20 to .22 because, although a .22’s piston gives a lower thump, the poor trajectory of the .22 gives overall poorer accuracy. 2) Down range energy. It is said that you need 4 to 6ft/lb to kill your quarry, depending what it is. The .20 calibre is claimed to have a peculiar advantage in energy retention which is far greater than you would think when just comparing pellet mass to pellet frontal area. 3) “Mass of destruction”. At longer ranges the .20 has the best combination of penetration and “mass of destruction” over both .177 and .22. Over 12ft/lb, non-recoil and recoil, for targets I think that FT and HFT disciplines are sub 12ft/lb so have not commented here. Over 12ft/lb (FAC), non-recoil and recoil, for hunting >> Go for .20 Reasons, for any given muzzle energy: 1) The higher the energy the less the difference in “flatness” (horizontal) between the trajectory of the .177 and the .20 2) .20 gives a better “mass of destruction” than .177 3) You can reach a point where the peculiar wind resistance advantages of .20 means that it’s trajectory is “straighter” and therefore more accurate. Note, there is a difference between horizontal and straight: A perfectly flat (i.e. horizontal when viewed from the side) trajectory may, when viewed from above, be banana shaped if there is a breeze. NOTES: - Weights and behavioural idiosyncrasies of pellets are important, and I didn’t see enough information on how different weights effected trajectory. - Some FAC air rifles are appearing from the far east with high twist rate barrels, and guess what – the .20 caliblre is looking good there as well. - On the negative side Crossman, probably under the influence of an accountant and not a businessman, may be dropping the .20 premier – but, other than satisfying some short sighted accountancy issue, such a decision will most likely do them more harm than good as it is likely that nothing will now prevent .20 from ultimately outselling .22 at some point in the future. Edited January 20, 2006 by 2spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 so i guess you dont like .22 then B) ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted January 20, 2006 Report Share Posted January 20, 2006 looks like an other .20 fan! an .25 hater not to sure i agree with you that .20 will out sell .22 tho. .22 is the most widely used calliber for a reason. even if there are others .22 is the most trused. spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2spring Posted January 21, 2006 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 (edited) Why is .22 the biggest selling calibre? If it is, then this is a possible answer: Because in the “old days” the assumption may have been “the bigger the better” based on something like “if you throw something big at it then it will hit harder.” Then, once a product gets established the shops won’t want to make their life harder by stocking more varieties. When I bought my first gun I asked for a .177 and the shop assistant told me with great authority that everybody bought .22 because .22 was more accurate. So I bought a .22 because I didn’t know any better. However, we now have the internet. We can obtain a vast amount of objective information. I wish the facts did show .22 to be the best calibre for sub 100ft/lb. But they don’t. It is unlikely that any manufacturers would have introduced any .20 whatsoever, after all these years of .177 and .22 dominance, if it was not the case that .20 is superior in a significant number of applications. Here are a couple of interesting links relating to calibre: :blink: : Something old : Something new :blink: : Sometning cool Edited January 21, 2006 by 2spring Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 21, 2006 Report Share Posted January 21, 2006 its not what you got nut what you can do with it mate the only thing about using a .22 in the field your range guestimation must be almost spot on. dont get me wrong, i have tried .20 and had many .177 but my favorite rifle would have to be my trusty TX200 MK1 in .22, its all about practise. The oly thing that really lets down the .20 is the lack of pellt choices out there :blink: until JSB bring out a .20 your basicaly stuck with H&N FTT or crossman. It used to be i had a .177 for the fields and a .22 for the targets now its .22 for both as I do about 500 pellets a week!!!! At the club on thursday a guy gave me his HW97 to zero in he just bought it scope and all for £80! 2 mins latter i was getting 0.5" groupings at 35 yards (bench rested) and hitting what i wanted from 5 yards out to 45 yards. this is also where scope choice plays a lot in things, people dont realise how important the right scope is for the job they are doing, the scopes i use are always set on 6 or 9x mag, and the rifle si use are all within 10.5-12F/lbs which means my pellets are going be at most 1" off my normal aim points. I found changing mag throws everything out. Like i said its not what your using but how you use it that makes the difference .177 more poppular now due to the HFT and yes it did used to be that a .177 in the shops would be the kiss of death, but things are changing, not sure if i agree on the .20 being what they are changing to, ut things are certainly changing. 2 years ago 98% of shooters at the club were using .22 (almost all new to the sport) and now 2 years down the road about 30% use a .22 on a regular basis but 70% prefer to use a .177 with only one member using a .20! ROB :blink: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLTA Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 Hi, I most make comment on hunting with FAC airguns in this thread because this is not really mentioned. Sub 12 ft/lbs airguns are mentioned quite a deal and for these choosing either .177, .20 or .22 does not make the big difference. But lets us now talk FAC guns because then you put these into action some things will change. Always remember, that in killing a quarry two things are important in this matter. And these are shot placement and internal destruction levels. To take shot placement first, if you shoot a high power airgun (from approx. 25 ft/lbs and going up) you will normally get a good flat trajectory if you match the pellet weight correctly to the gun meaning for many airgunners better ability to place the shot right into the killzone of a quarry. Choosing high power airguns also mean that you can shoot a rather heavy pellet weight for better resistance to crosswinds, getting better penetration and "normally" better expansion of the pellet upon impact and you can get as flat trajectory as you possible can get almost no matter what caliber you are using. Normally .177 and sometimes the .20 is out of the picture because of too low pellet weight available on the market for airgunners. Now, let us take a look on the killing performance of different calibers. As said before destruction levels mean a big thing in this matter if we are going to get CLEAN kills. Higher destruction levels comes from a wider and deeper wound channel. If the pellets don´t expand upon impact with a quarry you will get almost the same diameter of the pellet right through the quarry and if we are looking at the .20 we don´t get as high destruction level as .22 and .25. That is the big problem with the .20 caliber. If the same types of pellets do expand upon impact in each caliber then we will have the same picture, .22 and especially the .25 come out as winners. I will gladly put some info of my own experience into this matter. As many probably know I am shooting a .25 on high power setting and using Bisley Pest Control pellets as my main hunting pellet. Try to imagine what happens then such a pellet hit a quarry ? I can tell you that the wound channel completly through the quarry normally will be close to .50" making alot of destruction inside a quarry and making the kill as clean as you can get it on airgun quarry. 2spring, I will give you a very good advice here. Before you jump to ANY what so ever conclusion you MUST try things off first yourself to find the golden thread. Reading books and information found on the internet will not give you any clear pictures of what really goes on. Testing yourself, my mate is the best and most reliable thing you can ever do. Cheers - Bolta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
king ratcatcher Posted January 22, 2006 Report Share Posted January 22, 2006 i like .22 and .177, i have a bsa lightning .22, and a weihrauch 97k .177, i like both calibers very much and really, i couldnt possibly choose between the two, .177 has the extra 10, 15 yards further accuracy over the .22, although the .22 gives a good whack. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 However, we now have the internet. We can obtain a vast amount of objective information. In other words it takes even longer to sort through the "myths", "hear say", "my mate down the pub says........" and "Bullshiite" to get the down to earth honest truth Oh and this is no indication to you personnaly, or this forum just a trend I have seen over the last year on the internet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 whoop let's hear it for the .25! not got an FAC yet so i have to setle for mid range rats or verry close rang rabbits with my supersport as it's only hitting 10.5 ftlb . when i get round to it tho i'm lookin at getting a .25 theoben eliminator. i think they make em at 28ish ftlb? or an AAs410 exrta .22 30ftlb? what do you use bolta? spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLTA Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 +50 ft/lbs Daystate Huntsman, spider.20. The gun is now out of production. I would suggest if you want to go FAC in .25 then you need to pick a gun of a least 30 ft/lbs or else you won´t get as flat trajectory as you could get. Choose something between 30 to 60 ft/lbs in .25 to get the best results. If you choose a FAC .22 then get something around 30 ft/lbs, not much over and not much under 30 ft/lbs. Cheers, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
plinker Posted January 23, 2006 Report Share Posted January 23, 2006 (edited) .22 vs 177 what a refreshing change, how progressive plinker Edited January 23, 2006 by plinker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKEBITE Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 .22 vs 177 what a refreshing change, how progressive :blink: :blink: plinker You sound surprised. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roblade Posted January 24, 2006 Report Share Posted January 24, 2006 .22 vs 177 what a refreshing change, how progressive :blink: :blink: plinker actualy i would say ths is more the .20 Vs. .25 debate ROB Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bindi Posted January 27, 2006 Report Share Posted January 27, 2006 I have shot both .177 and .22. I really like the .177 for the amazing fps i was getting, along with flat trajectory. partic good for the feathered. I really like the .22 for the greater killing power with furry animals. If I was to buy a new air rifle i would go for another AA400 (as i think they are superb) but might be tempted to go for a .20 Never tried .25 and have the view that you really need a fac rated gun to get the best from it, and then I might as well go for a .22 rimfire. how have others got on with .20?? Are the pellets readily available? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 i'v never seen a huge selection of .20 pellets but i'm told their out there.gess you just have to know where to look. :( Bolta what guns are on the market in the fac .25 range? you don't realy see many of them ether. i know of the eliminator but i'v not heard of the huntsman. are there many more? spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BOLTA Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 Hi Spider.20, You are absolutely right about that not many FAC .25 airguns are available on the market today. Daystate is making the Air Ranger in .25, the gun taking over after the Huntsman period. Ben Taylor will do a FAC Rapid in .25 if you like. There is still the Career airguns in .25. Also the Air Force Condor model can be modified to .25, if you like. The Theoben Eliminator, as you mentioned is also on the market. Don´t know about the Wiscombe range of airguns, perhaps these too ? Or else, there is still custom makers like john Bowkett, Stalker rifles, Barnes and perhaps Dennis Quakenbush in the US. Cheers, Bolta Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted January 28, 2006 Report Share Posted January 28, 2006 nice one. thanks BOLTA i'll check them out :( spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moley61 Posted January 30, 2006 Report Share Posted January 30, 2006 No one has mentioned how fiddly .177 pellets become on a cold winters day in the field and although easier .22 can still be awkward to load with cold hands. I know modern multi shot Air Rifles mitigate this but not all of us have them. Cheers, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spider.20 Posted January 31, 2006 Report Share Posted January 31, 2006 try .25! it will never be said that a .25 pellet is fiddly even with cold hands. but i still ware golves with the tips of the middle, index and thumb cut off on the left hand to make it easyer to load pellets spider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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